Comments on: Hatchbacks : the forgotten generation

By: Jonathan Carling

Jonathan Carling — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 14:51:39 +0000

@tryphons
Yes, you#re probably right. There was also a mini-sized fwd Alfa prototype in about 1960 which could have had an impact if it had made production

By: Tryphons

Tryphons — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 01:47:08 +0000

To answer Jonathan Carling, I’d say yes, Giacosa would have developped a front wheel drive with a transverse engine, for he had first begun studying such an architecture as soon as 1947.
Would the first Autobianchi or Fiat have been released as early without the Mini ? No, because the Mini prompted Fiat engineers show their management (ingenieri Bono and Valetta) that this was the way to go, which they had been extremely reluctant to admit.

By: AROnline live » Superminis: Why the Italians beat us by a decade

AROnline live » Superminis: Why the Italians beat us by a decade — Sun, 08 May 2011 20:05:48 +0000

[...] that of the Golf-class hatchback, it was pioneered not by the British, but by the Italians – and we declared the Zastava 101 as the first truly modern family hatchback in the tradition of modern back in [...]

By: ShiMTonkey

ShiMTonkey — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 09:40:57 +0000

Top birds on the Yugo

By: didier ziane

didier ziane — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:30:40 +0000

my dad had a A111, that looked like a fiat 128 but with big rectangle headlamps, it was quite spoty, but being a 8CV road-tax was double than that of the peugeot 204 break 6CVwe had before.It was dully changed for a GS 1220 there was more space at the back for us as well, but no-one at school asked about the car!!

By: Stewart

Stewart — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:21:34 +0000

A yugo!.. I had one of thses back in the early 90′s it was a 513, highly underated, although it was probably the newest car I have owned (at 6 years old I recall) the drivers seat was falling apart, rust was rampant and overall it was a bit of a shed. But it was a very good car to drive, and more than a match for equally aged fiestas and novas, although I will admit to removing all the zastatva badging and putting fiat 128 badges on! I also fitted a 5 speed strada box to it

By: Robert Leitch

Robert Leitch — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:40:16 +0000

Keith – a valuable treatise on the cars that shaped the orthodoxy of our times. Neither Giacosa, nor Grundeler and Scales were first with the transverse end on configuration. DKW, Saab and Lloyd had been using it with two-stroke twins for years before . Of course if Issigonis had stayed at BMC from 1953 to develop the front wheel drive Minor, and Giacosa had overcome his innate “arrangiarsi” and persuaded the Fiat board to go for a fwd transverse engined Seicento, it all could have kicked off a decade sooner.

I have an enduring fondness for those who “backed the wrong horse” in the front wheel drive stakes, the V-fours, flat fours, various longitudinal permutations from Triumph, Toyota, Renault, Saab. The motorcycle-inspired Honda 1300 layout with the gearbox behind a transverse engine, linked by a Hy-Vo chain looked to have potential but is now long forgotten.

Only Audi and Subaru defy convention now, and I wonder for how much longer. “Arrangiarsi” would inevitably win, and the inelegant asymmetrical configuration which overcomes the need to take power to a gearbox behind or below the engine through expensive chains or idler gears, or indeed the requirement for a costly crown wheel and pinion to turn drive through 90 degrees, has become the world standard.

As is inevitable when so many minds are at work on one technology, some clever things have grown from the end-on transverse system, such as Volvo and Daewoo’s improbable in line sixes. I still find it inelegant, and yearn – surely in vain – for a return to the days of technological diversity.

“Arrangiarsi” – a not quite translatable Italian expression – closest notion are “thrift” and “to make do and mend”.

By: Ian Elliott

Ian Elliott — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:18:11 +0000

Keith – sorry to hear that you are wounded (did you forget the axle stand?). Regarding the influence of Mini/1100, don’t forget that one major manufacturer also copied, very rapidly, the gearbox in sump approach – Peugeot with the 204 and its derivatives. My abiding memory of the 204 was the wonderful ’round the corner’ fan belt run.
Ian Elliott

By: Jonathan Carling

Jonathan Carling — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:05:29 +0000

Very thought provoking! I can’t help thinking that the Mini contained more original thinking. Would the 128 have happened without the Mini coming first? Maybe not. Ditto the Autobianchi and Simca.

I think, then, that I’ll say the Mini was the more ground-breaking. The Zastava came late to the UK and had to be sold at a bargain price – mainly because of poor image and build quality – but, if it had been launched in 1969 as a Fiat, that would have been a different story. The rear styling of the Zastava was also poor but it did pre-date the Golf, a ground-breaking car for the market.

Not launching a hatchback Fiat 128 in 1969 stands as a real missed opportunity now.