Blog : Brexit – keep calm, and carry on…

Carole Nash Classic Insurance Specialists

Keith Adams

Top Gear Pall Mall

In the run-up to last week’s referendum AROnline kept pretty quiet about the various pros and cons of an anticipated Brexit. Why? I guess because I thought that it would never happen. It was going to be close, that’s for sure, and the Remain campaign was absolutely useless on both sides of the political fence, but I thought that, when it came to it, us Brits are a considered lot, and we don’t like revolutions. We simply don’t do that sort of thing. How wrong I was…

Ian Nicholls has already spelt out the car manufacturers’ view of the post-Brexit political landscape, but it’s worth noting that, in addition, Jaguar Land Rover has already sought to calm fears that leaving the EU will cause irrevocable damage to the UK manufacturing sector. Personally speaking, I think this was a very wise move – many people were panicked by the result of the referendum but, as it stands now – just three days after the result was called, remember – the world hasn’t ended. Our factories are still making cars, and our workers are still being paid – and this will continue.

What the industry – and the population as a whole – needs to do now, is avoid a knee-jerk reaction and start changing business strategies in haste. As has been said many times elsewhere, back in the 1990s, we were scared into believing that businesses would pull out if we didn’t join the Euro, but here we are today making more cars than we have ever done before. The good news here is that we make desirable cars which the whole world wants to buy – not just Europe. In fact, JLR sells 80 per cent of its British-made exports outside of the EU.

AROnline’s core raison d’être is to report the history of British car manufacturing in forensic detail. That’s because to understand the present, one needs to study, and fully know, the past. Where BMC failed in the past was in getting its cars sold heavily into markets that weren’t saddled with import barriers. It was good at flogging to the Commonwealth, but less so with mainland Europe. Had it been able to sell Minis and 1100s for competitive prices, things could have been so very different now.

What therefore needs to happen even before the UK Government triggers Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union and starts the process of leaving the EU, is to negotiate a trade deal. It needs to ensure that what hampered BMC won’t do the same to Jaguar Land Rover today – and that means securing car manufacturers’ continued membership of the EU’s Single Market, without tariff barriers or any other protectionist nonsense.

We import a lot of cars into the UK, and many of those have components in them that were originally built here. All those ‘lovely’ four-cylinder BMW 3 Series that come into the UK are powered by engines made in Hams Hall. Those German-made Ford Focus TDCis we love to buy are also pulled along by British-made engines. It truly is a global business. That won’t stop any time soon and we need to ensure that the EU understands that.

So, as a nation, we voted for Brexit – love it or hate it, we should all now make the best of it. It’s not called Great Britain for nothing. If we hold our nerve now, we can and will work with the EU in the future – just so long, that is, as we’re led by the right people and we all believe we can be truly great again.

We are a great nation – our cars are great – and I know that we can truly use the lessons that we’ve learned from our past to build a successful future for our country and its Automotive Industry.

Keith Adams

Keith Adams

Editor and creator AROnline at AROnline
Created www.austin-rover.co.uk in 2001 and built it up to become the world's foremost reference source for all things BMC, Leyland and Rover Group, before renaming it AROnline in 2007.

Is the Editor of the Parkers website and price guide, formerly editor of Classic Car Weekly, and launch editor/creator of Modern Classics magazine. Has contributed to various motoring titles including Octane, Practical Classics, Evo, Honest John, CAR magazine, Autocar, Pistonheads, Diesel Car, Practical Performance Car, Performance French Car, Car Mechanics, Jaguar World Monthly, MG Enthusiast, Modern MINI, Practical Classics, Fifth Gear Website, Radio 4, and the the Motoring Independent...

Likes 'conditionally challenged' motors and taking them on unfeasible adventures all across Europe.
Keith Adams

87 Comments

  1. Apparently the Remain campaign was co-ordinated by Will Straw, son of Jack. I am not sure what qualified him for such a monumental task.

    • Those leading the Remain camp did a terrible job of selling the merits of the EU. Their biggest trump card was to offer stability. As we now can see, the Leavers had — and still have — absoultely no practical plan as to how to leave the EU and no clear idea under what conditions they want to leave. The devil is in the detail and the Leavers have nothing concrete in place. (Compare that with the Scottish referendum when those backing independence had a very clear plan.) We are now facing years of instabilty and uncertainty, while the racists and xenophobes in this country feel they have free rein to say what they think. It’s a nasty cocktail. And I’m not being a doom-monger. It’s simply blinkered, uninformed and Pollyanna-ish to just say “things will be alright if we say so”. Frankly I’m cheesed off with the strong Leave stance on this site and not sure I’ll be coming back. Britain needs a strong voice in Europe and should have stayed inside to reform the EU.

      • 1. If we weren’t in the EU, is it something we would join now?
        2. The ‘Leave’ campaign had no need whatsoever to put forward any kind of ‘plan’ for leaving the EU. That is the role of the government of the day. ‘Leave’ simply had to argue their case to the public. This was done successfully.
        3. That the ‘Remain’ campaign was such an appalling mess, is probably down to the simple fact that their aim was clearly wrong – at least in the eyes of the voters.
        4. It’s a damning indictment that you choose to label people’s fears and concerns as “racist” and “xenophobic”. Doing so has become tiresome in the extreme. Why can these issues ever be addressed in a calm, non-hysterical way? Why must you always resort to name calling and contempt?

        To close, if you don’t like the company you’re keeping, then change the company.

        • 1. It depends how badly we need to trade with Mainland Europe

          2. It’s easier to sell a pup that way

          3. I agree they could have done better, but if you’ve not got the right wing press on your side you’ve dead politically these days.

          4. Some people are using the result as a licence for bigotry.

          Maybe you should listen to your own advice sometime.

          • 1. Large chunks of the World trade very successfully with mainland Europe, without chaining themselves into paying huge membership fees, agreeing to unlimited immigration, or loosing sovereignty. The EU doesn’t have trade agreements with the US, China, or India, to name a few very major trading nations.

            2. A dumb answer that could equally be applied to the ‘Remain’ argument. They had nothing concrete to say either.

            3. I, like many others, am very unsure as to the influence of the press in the modern era. Or to put it another way, anything the press may have had to say in the debate was at least equalled by the ‘Remain’ leaning of the BBC and Sky News. It’s likely that these actually reach more people than the “right wing Press”.

            4. Bigotry has always been with us. It will remain so. That your first retort is one of ‘bigot’ simply underlines my point. Why resort to name calling in every instance? Why not address the issue, instead of labelling?

            I’m very happy with the company I keep. I’m very happy to express my views, and am equally happy for others to express theirs. We are defined by our differences, not divided.

  2. Well said Keith. Always look on the bright side of life.

    This has shaken up the many complacent who needed shaking and now all those we entrust and pay to look after the Nation’s well being, all of them and the rest of us, will have to get stuck in together as one Nation and make it work.

    The good folks of Sunderland and the surrounding area were an exceptional vote surprise. Plenty of right stuff up there.

    Great Britain and Team UK have done it before and I’m confident can do it again. Lets all get stuck in and make it so.

    Still have on eye on the news channels… boy oh boy are the naysayers and doom merchants lapping it all up. Oh dearie me and it appears all the media luvvies can not get enough of this doom and gloom. Best look outside just in case. That’s a relief… the sky has not fallen it … yet 🙂

  3. Quite agree. I am confident that the stakes are high enough that sense will prevail and the threats of a bloody good bollocking will remain as just threats.

    Chris.

  4. I voted Remain mostly because of my job, some of the more unpleasant characters in the Leave campaign, and not out of any love for EU. I’m not some 20 year old student from a comfortable background who thinks the EU is somehow wonderful and anyone who disagrees is a reactionary or an uneducated Northerner who reads the Sun. To me, 48 and not on a massive salary, I voted to remain for economic reasons and had I been in another job and being based in a Northern area that was 61 per cent leave, would have probably backed a Brexit.

  5. I voted for out, and I was surprised at the result too, 53/47, in my area for out.
    My reasons? I was born in the year we went in and ever since I could walk everyone in the family, everyone I talked to hated Europe and the EU, for interfering, costing jobs (and it did in several sectors) and generally being a right royal pain in the butt.
    I don’t have any problems with foreigners, we wouldn’t have an NHS if it wasn’t for them. Nor a London underground (although for the poor schoolkids at executive armpit height in a hot summer that’d possibly be a blessed relief – even at a heady 5″11 I could have done with a full wildfire hazmat suit).
    The naysayers will do what they always do and write the usual plainchant whinges like brexit was yersinia pestis coming over for a long weekend. It’s not, we don’t know what it is, no one does because the framework hasn’t been set yet (it’s still in Boris Johnsons meccano box in the loft).
    To be blunt the EU in the sense of the Euro has been dead since 2008, when Alastair “walk very slowly towards financial suicide” Darling put the boot into Barclay’s/Lehmans deal. It’s been like watching Shawn of the Dead in slow motion since then, zombies going though the motions, while Germany and those lovable yanks go round bashing in the brains of national economies and eating what drips out (metaphorically…)
    The only issue that worries me about a potential deal is if David Cameron has anything to do with it. He couldn’t negotiate his way out of a revolving door, and his levels of tact are such that he’s the only politician to unite India and Pakistan since partition – he offended them both so badly they actually clubbed together to hate his guts on international TV.
    I suspect it’ll all go one of two ways, Europe as is will hold together, just, as what it is to all intents and purposes what it is now, a Thousand (Billion Dollars a) Year Reich in which case we might be in trouble stuck on the outside. Or. It’ll all come down like a row of dominoes and we’ll have the moral high ground (and probably still be royally screwed).
    It probably doesn’t matter anyway, because of 5 little words…

    Donald
    Trump
    President
    Nuclear
    Weapons

    I hope he doesn’t get in.. Because think on this, if there are alien races and they drop in any time soon… Do we really want the first person they’ll meet to be Donnie ****wit?

    • Another good read. Thanks for taking the time to post Jemma.

      I’m confident that with the passing of time, this Nation will be less divided. Yes, and even the most determined “Told you so” doom and gloom spreading naysayers will see what needs to be done and get stuck in along with the rest of us.

      It aint Rocket Science.

  6. Sorry but I think that’s far too accepting of what we’ve seen.

    Which is… It appears that we have less protection here than if we were buying double glazing. Then at least there would be a 30 day cooling off period.

    Millions of people weren’t interested in politics and voted on the basis of what they heard in the campaign.

    I wanted to remain. Some Leave votets will have studied in great depth and disagreed with me. That’s fine.

    But way, way too many have been misled. That’s not right.

    I’d rather see a repeat referendum with a 70% leave vote based on fact, rather than stay with the fiction of the first one.

  7. Keith – good to see some reasoned comments at last.

    I am sure the UK would be fine whatever the result if the politicians stop bickering.

  8. Well one of the first results seems to be in.
    Many potential bidders of Tata Steel plant in Wales have said because of Brexit they will withdraw their bids.
    Steel is used in cars.
    Is this the first shot fired????
    Or is it a tactic to buy a steel plant on the cheap?

    • TATA sell off.

      You know, I’ve learned that things are not always as obvious as they seem. Particularly where Big Business in a Shark infested commercial global World is involved.

      Could simply be a plausible and convenient get out ploy for those who never had serious intent to buy… Like all those “buyers and partners” in the run up to April 2005 for the asset stripped remnant MG-R.

      Now as then, had any of them been really serious, a deal would have been done and dusted already.

      Always look on the down side of life… We’re doomed. Looking out the window as I type this … Sky not fallen in … yet… That’s a relief. Be patient..

      Yes… patience… The worthwhile takes time.

  9. As a French owner of a 1973 Austin Maxi, year of the British entry in the EC, I sincerely regret the victory of the pro brexit camp.

    I think you don’t realize all the consequences of this on the future of your own country. England will be England, but UK as a country will probably disappear if the Scots decide to leave you alone.

    Open your eyes : Queen Victoria died one hundred years ago, you lost your empire, as we lost ours, fifty years ago, and UK IS a European country. A united Europe was the sense of history. Going back is just a nonsense. But we must admit that the EU, as an institution, has failed to explain the sense of the European project these last years.

    Today Donald Trump says brexit is a great thing. Vladimir Putin feels happy as Europe is weaker than ever before. Marine Le Pen demands a referendum here in France. All this proves that brexit is a far-right, nationalist, chauvinistic project. All the Leave voters were not racist, but all racists voted Leave. I don’t want this for my country and my continent.

    Your Queen must be very deceived and sad to finish her reign in a divided country. She saw the war as a young woman, she lived all your difficulties during the 70’s, she deserved better than that for her 90th anniversary. Britain deserved better than that. This is not just about car industry.

    • Francois : your post illustrates perfectly why a majority of British people want to leave the EU. We joined the EEC , which was a sensible trading arrangement, and over a period of 40 years that has transformed itself into a bureaucracy run by a bunch of corrupt and incompetent megalomaniacs . We are sick and tired of foreigners such as you telling us how to run our country . You just cannot resist poking your unwanted noses into our affairs. Your posting is just another example of this. Does this make the message clear to you ?

  10. Oz: If I had the money to start buying up foundries I wouldn’t be buying steel plants, brexit or not. I’d be buying Aluminium, Titanium foundries and all the carbon fibre capacity I could get my paws on..
    The drive for mpg means the lighter the better, if we say 80% of a 1960s car was steel or iron – nowadays its probably more like 40%. Aluminium engines from top to bottom (not just cylinder heads), aluminium or CF body panels are here, CF or titanium framing and monocoques will be coming within the decade (they’re already here if you want to pay silly money) – cargo ships are starting to use lighter materials where they can, warships already do just don’t mention it to the US navy (all those dissolving littoral ships, don’tcha’know .
    The need for better mpg will spur the greater use of other materials, even more so for those spawn of the devil known as electric cars. The more usage, the more capacity needed, the more capacity the lower the unit costs, the more that material will be used. And so on.
    There is a reason steel plants are in ever increasing trouble, because they’re losing market share in several important areas, and they’ve nothing that will come on stream to replace those revenue streams – it’s not a great idea to build a rocket out of steel.. You’d lose a substantial percentage of your weight to orbit capacity.

  11. Francois: A few points if I may.

    I suggest you study your history – you didn’t give up your empire, you tried to fight for it and got hammered for your troubles, despite the commanders concerned being warned countless times that they were flogging a dead horse.
    The UK, and Churchill can, for once, be lauded for this – saw that we didn’t have a chance of holding on, which is one of the reasons why we now have Israel, a position we should have fought until at least a relatively sane political position could have been reached, not like the disaster there is out there today.. Although what he did in India at the end of the war beggars belief.
    The Scots have been whinging about leaving since about a week after the original treaty was signed, they had the choice to go out of the UK, they stayed in.. Their choice. If there has been a “material adverse change” (and from their point of view there obviously has) then they do another referendum for leaving England and then apply for readmission into the Greater European Reich – threatening to put the boot into the brexit result is not the way to do it..
    As to our not yet late and unlamented queen. She’s been living in cloud cuckoo land since she was born, is a total irrelevance, unless we want to sell devices of torture to far east monarchies (which we set up BTW) and quite frankly her greatest legacy might be the end of the monarchy via her spawn, Charles III The Hopeless.
    As for proving racism it does nothing of the sort, yes there will be a few that voted on a racist basis, but then I seem to remember France has a history of that that makes the Germans and the English look like rank amateurs (the name Dreyfus ringing any bells?). Personally I’m a dishumanist – I’ve never met someone I could trust yet, white, black, mixed, or any colour.
    So it’s a little rich blanketing brexiteers as uniformly racist from France after the last 800 years of your history.. Every time the plague turned up after 700ce the traditional response of the Frenchman was to cook, beat, hang, or otherwise send to the next world as many Jew’s as quickly as possible, while coming up with all the racist ideas the Germans used to justify the holocaust. The world Jewish conspiracy was a French not German invention.
    I think the point as has been missed is this. If companies, as commercial enterprises, combine internationally, like Renault & Nissan it will have the same if not a better effect than all the blathering of politicians put together because short of all out war the combined company needs to make money in the easiest way possible. Which means collaboration. When BL went TITSUP (total inability to support usual performance) one of the reasons it did was that no other company or country had a reason to want it to survive (that and mostly awful products, I’ve been in both Maxi and Renault 16s, id have the Renault every time) – it was operating as a national not international entity.
    Re Trump and Putin – one is on another planet and the other still thinks it’s the cold war.. And acts like it. Trump thinks it’s a good idea because he thinks we’ll move closer to the states.. If so he’s in for the shock of his life, when even Theresa May thinks you are a dangerous nutter, no one in parliament is going to touch Trump with a ten foot pole (other than to make sure he stays in the acid bath in his dark lords lair (with obligatory secret passage and treacherous sidekick included)). Putin is dreaming of charging across Europe like a latter day Zhukov – dreaming because despite the numbers being in his favour the Chinese will throw a fit if he interferes with their captive markets (horror of horrors, war might interfere with iPhone shipments), and they’ll flatten Russia if it comes down to it.

  12. If we leave the single market it is 10% tariff on our car exports, unless we agree to a new deal with the EU. Brexiters wanted an end to free movement of labour, well that won’t happen at the same time as getting free access to EU markets. Not to mention we have no say over EU rules anymore.

    Basically UK manufacturing is f**ked unless we agree to being dictated to by the EU and having less power than Malta or Luxembourg. No offence I am not surprise most comments here favour leave, older people voted leave. Alas I don’t think you’re facing reality and what a poor decision this was.

    • I don’t live there and don’t vote in UK elections even though I could. I would have voted remain, but I can see why people disagree.

      This could take many years to unravel, the manufacturing of components is so dispersed worldwide.

      In the short term I think BMW, VAG , Mercedes, Renault/ Nissan would resist tariffs, PSA might not. FCA headquarters is now in the UK not sure what they would do.

      I think the economic implications are less than the future geopolitical consequences for Scotland and Northern Ireland.

  13. @bartelbabe – what’s needed is a sensible negotiation so that the German, French / Spanish built cars can still be imported in the UK / and vice versa without excessive Trade tariffs being imposed. Mutual respect, calm attitude without a dash for an instant fix will hopefully settle things down.

    As for most older people voting Leave, I am 60, have worked solid & paid my taxes for 43 years so I think I have more worldly knowledge and life experience than these 20 somethings. I also remember life before the EEC / EU (unlike the know it all young’uns!)

    • Direct comparisons pre- and post-EU are dangerous to make. The world has changed significantly over the 40-odd years, so belief that we will return to a pre-EEC world is folly.

      • Yes they will James – just like my generation had to live with decisions their forebears made. If we are so advanced these days then common sense and calm negotiating will deliver a satisfactory outcome… eventually.

        • That’s the spirit, well said Hilton D.

          In other news…

          Another HUGE disappointment to me was hearing M. Heseltine this afternoon. I greatly admired him back when the time came to award Thatcher the BIG E and was my hope he would replace Thatcher.

          What a disappointment to hear him in full Grim Reaper “We’re All Doomed” mode. Boy oh boy is he a bad loser lacking any confidence in the people of this still GREAT Nation. Talk about a once great thinker in terminal decline.

          Anybody else from either Remain or Leave camps hear that from Heseltine earlier…? If so how do you feel about what he said?

          Good to see the slam-dunk faces of all the media luvvies when Boris stood down. Who knew… Some of us did like when I posted this earlier over on anothe MG and Rover enthusiast site. :~

          QUOTE:

          =========================

          Teresa May is an impressive, competent woman with much respect and status. She would make a fine Prime Minister but, being from the REMAIN camp, not ideal at this post-Referendum time.

          She’s just making her pitch on TV now… Made an impressively positive start considering the less than certain times ahead. Good for her..

          Sorry Boris, but, you should know that on all past Tory Party Form, the “bookies-favourite” rarely if ever wins these leadership elections.

          ===============

          Anyone know when the deadline is for those Tory MPs to put themselves forward for the Top Banana Tory job?

          Very interesting …

  14. Sunderland was the 1st town to vote leave. I wil not be laughing when Nissan moves production back into the EU and shuts the plant here down. Bite the hand that feeds you. No they bit their bloody arm off!.

    • A question Mark Hobbs.

      Will Nissan or any of the others who chose to relocate then still want to vend their stuff produced elsewhere… here in the UK? To take advantage of the UK’s wider profit margins as say BMW and the rest do without by or leave not to mention tariffs?

      I wonder which of all the car consumer markets of the EU, BMW obtain their widest profit totals outside of their homeland… OK, I jest, I know the answer to that as do the Bavarian Outfit.

      I was actually both amazed and delighted to see that early indicator posted by the Good Folks of the North East soon after the polls closed. Obviously, judging by the facial expressions it came as the proverbial BOMBSHELL to the media luvvies particularly those in our beloved oh so fair and unbiased BBC.

      Human Nature being what it is it is perfectly understandable that there are so many glum faces not just here in the UK, but all those over on the mainland who have got the hump over the British wishing to take control of their own future… because that decision will affect many of their selfish standpoints. They want to know the future now and that simply cannot be done. It will all take time and those who want a speedy solution, will come to realise it cannot be done quickly and yes, they will have to be patient.

      Just seen Alastair Campbell in full negative wrath flow on the BBC News Channel. Boy oh boy has he got the hump. He was seen by the media as the nasty piece of work when back in his Labour Government Political Aide days. Now looks likely to be the flavour of the month with the media luvvies…:)

      What goes around comes around.

      Patience is a virtue I was told when very young.

      They were wrong … I WANT IT NOW… Not me, but, lot of that about.

      • I suspect the workers at Nissan know exactly where most of their cars are going, and it is not the EU if its similar to Honda in Swindon, most of their production is bound for Russia, Africa and oddly japan

  15. It seems to escape the doom-mongers that the manufacturing motor industry ( as opposed to the service element ) is in employment terms a very small player both here and in Europe . The bulk of manufacturing is now accomplished by robots, and the result is that of the 30+ million people in gainful employment in the UK , less than 0.2 % are engaged in motor manufacturing, and of these about half are employed by JLR. Thus the downside risk to employment even if all production was moved outside the UK ( which is unlikely to put it at its highest ) is small . Contrast this with the 21% or thereabouts of all people in Spain who are unemployed compared with the – roughly – 5% unemployed here and you will see that the risk that we are taking is small compared with the problems that are besetting Europe , and for which at present we are paying heavily . I accept , of course , that there is also a risk to component manufacturers, but it must not escape notice that in 1970, just before we joined the EEC, we produced about 2.1 million vehicles, a figure which we are only just about getting with striking distance of now . Thus overall, the benefits of EU membership are not perhaps quite as high as is imagined . And, as others have pointed out, our being in the EU did not stop Ford transferring its last remaining production in Britain , out of the EU , to Turkey. The price to be paid for wresting back control of our own destiny may well therefore be one well worth paying

    • Christopher
      Whilst I don’t agree with you on the main issue, that was a very informed comment.
      The labour intensive motor industry of the past has gone.

    • Well said Christopher. Thanks for posting. Level headed thinking looking at the total picture is what is really needed. Nothing lasts forever.

      • Have we forgotten that we are supposedly a democratic nation, by which I refer to the UK. We had a free and democratic referendum and the choice was to LEAVE.

        Please take note of this Ms Nicola Sturgeon: you can’t just keep having referendums until you get the result you want – democracy is to respect the will of the people and the people of the UK wanted LEAVE.

        We have to accept it and get on with making a success of it. Our government should no longer consider themselves as supporters of the LEAVE or REMAIN camp, they are the government and need to govern the country and present a positive face to the electorate and the rest of the World: as an aside I voted to REMAIN.

        What seems to have happened is that there was lots of campaigning but no planning, by either camp, as to what to do if they won! Rather like the USA with Kuwait/Iraq/Libya. It’s OK to win but you have to have a plan on what to do next and it seems to me that those who should have made the plans are still running around like headless chickens trying to qualify and quantify their position.

        • I’m hoping for a Norway deal which won’t mess things up too much.

          I was surprised at the lack of planning by Leave for an exit, expecting it to be a big part of the campaign.

          Now that Boris has bailed out it’s going to be “interesting” to see what happens next.

          • I am pretty sure a Norway-deal is not what the UK wants, as the current situation is actually better than that:
            – Norway has access to the common market
            – Norway has to pay money to the EU (similar levels per capita compared to the UK)
            – Norway has to support free movement of people (so no change to immigration)
            – Norway has to introduce most EU laws into its own law, but has absolutely no influence on these laws

            So, how would a Norway type of contract bring any advantages to the UK is not clear to me.

          • Why on earth would you expect the ‘leave campaign’ to have a plan for exiting the EU? That’s the job of the government. It’s the government’s job to plan for contingencies, and to react to circumstances. That our present government doesn’t seem to have a clue is another issue altogether.

            Or, to put it another way, ‘Leave’ didn’t have to offer anything. ‘Remain’ did a great job of making sure the vote went against them – they didn’t need any help.

  16. Dear Jemma, dear Mr Storey,

    I think I didn’t insult anyone in my post. Your answers, as I expected, are full of slander about our history or national identity, which are the perfect reflection of the essence of the brexit project. It leaves me absolutely indifferent. I’m just sad to see that Europe has been seen by some British people like a new nazi reich, which is for us, beyond the insult, an absolute nonsense. Europe has been built on the ruins of the WW2, in order to avoid another conflict.

    You joined the European Community in 1973 and it turned into a political union. But that was the point of the European project since it began in the early 50’s ! You thought you could change Europe by joining it, adapting it to your views. You were wrong. Europe is more than a place for making business. It is a common space where we can learn from each other, but this doesn’t seem to interest you. I am speaking to you both, not to Britain in general, because I know there are some reasonable people in Britain that disagree with you, maybe younger people, or maybe just more curious and open minded.

    Cela ne m’empêchera pas de continuer à lire ce site avec plaisir et d’aimer les voitures anglaises 🙂

    • Francois,

      You’re right, we were wrong when I along with millions of others British voted YES in 1975 to enter the Common Market. Not the over burdened parasitical Monster the EU would evolve into over the years. If the UK and a number of other EU members were asked to enter the UNION now, what would be the result. Bearing in mind the increasing swell of your countrymen and women who also seek their own Referendum. Are they wrong? Are those others feeling that way in your neighbouring countries also wrong?

      Looking at the masses of MEPs with the extensive wide angle lens views in the coverage of Nigel Farage’s MEP statement yesterday, I had no idea of the vast number of those in those well paid jobs. Unlike them, Farage has strong convictions about the well being of his country, not simply maintaining the EU status quo of his and their highly rewarded MEP job. We have a saying here in the UK… Turkeys would never Vote for Christmas. Yesterday we saw Nigel Farage doing just that. That is proof positive of sincere conviction. I would also be interested to know just how many of those hundreds of well paid MEPs have as Nigel suggested, ever or never had a real job and actually earned a living like most of the rest of us have to do. Yes, earned a living not simply a well paid job.

      However, many or most of those MEPs are cushioned against the harsher side effects of the decisions they make simply do not get that.

      Some put whatever “Racist” “Xenophobe” labels they chose on the millions both here in the UK and on the EU Mainland too, be in no doubt there are millions, who wanted out of the now unsustainable UNION. That is sure indicator they are still determined to get it wrong too and go to any lengths to get their desired result and to hell with the rest of us and democracy. There are numerous far more valid reasons for voting OUT of the EU monster. Us BIG-Englanders have been taken for mugs for far too long. Last week, we sent a clear message that enough is enough.

      Watching some of the MEPs responding to Farage, it is clear some simply do not get it. More likely that they do get it, but are spinelessly not showing any evidence for fear of voting for Christmas … like the doomed Turkeys.

      Rather than the UK Vote result being divisive as some now bang that drum ( All UK elections and referenda in my lifetime have had a divisive result… that’s how they work :rolleyes: ), when all said and done we now have a fine opportunity to unite and get working to the benefit of all. Not just all those in the UK, to include any friends we will still have on the EU mainland except of course those determined to make the UK Nation pay for the errors of their ways. Saw a lot of evidence of that yesterday. However, sense will prevail with the passing of time. Human Nature usually works like that as the matter cools and most remove their blinkers of self interest and see the light of reason then work to make positive progress to the mutual benefit of all parties involved.

      • The EU has 751 MEPs each being paid £6537 per month plus, £4200 expenses per month.
        Not much different to the House of Commons. Mind you most know the name of their MP but not their MEP?

        • Is that all those poor 751 MEPs get? Getting by on a paltry £10,000 a month poor devils. Bargain :facepalm:

          Only 751… Looked far more but, the camera can create a false impression.

          Huge savings for ALL EU taxpayers when that all crumbles. The good folks of Europe ~ by the way I was taught that the British Isles is part of Europe irrespective of any votes ~ will be able to not only survive but also thrive without the “benefits” of the massed 751’s efforts. Some of those efforts of those in that total have been known to get it wrong….either deliberately of by sheer ignorance.

          EU vehicle eMission Control parameters for instance … a “wool over the eyes” farce from the very first day it was conceived. Introduced avidly consumed by the tainted green something must be done “save the world” mindsets making things worse and spreading far more nasty stuff in the event. What a huge con-trick! Add that to the VAG emissions crookedness combined with the Diesels are Good, Petrols are evil resulting brainwashing.

          Only one control will save the Planet and it is not Vehicle Emissions. In the final analysis the only effective control will be …self Control of breeding numbers of that most destructive and all consuming species: Homo sapiens. Some customs and religions promote the opposite… that enables more divisive outbreeding us than them totals.

          Breaking news … the markets are showing good recovery signs. Who knew? What a surprise that is …. bad luck merchants of doom. Got that wrong … again.

          Thanks for that EU.

      • “Unlike them, Farage has strong convictions about the well being of his country” – which I presume is why he thinks it’s a great idea to stand up in the European parliament and insult and abuse the very people we need to negotiate hard with over the coming months. I do really wonder which “his country” is?

        I voted remain, which I appreciate is against most of the sentiment here and indeed the verdict delivered by our democracy. A significant factor in this was my concern that UKIPs interests were far more anti-European than pro-British, a concern no less mitigated since the referendum.

  17. Dear Francois : I’m afraid I cannot agree with your fundamental premise that the whole object of the EEC ( which of course stemmed originally from the European Coal and Steel Community ) was political union. When the referendum took place in 1975 in the UK , it was certainly never suggested that the European Commission would arrogate to itself powers to regulate many areas of British life and British laws, which as you probably know are fundamentally different from those of the Code Napoleon countries . On the basis that the EEC was a mutually beneficial trading agreement, I voted in favour of it. Under no circumstances would I have done so had I and millions of others been told the truth in 1975. I regret that I was ruder to you than I should have been , and I apologise for that, but I do not apologise for voting against remaining within what has become a semi-political union run by unelected officials. The arrogance of those officials has been amply demonstrated within the last 24 hours by the threats of the unfortunately named Junckers to force the 8 nations within the EU who have not adopted the Euro, now to do so . The EU needs to reflect carefully on how it is seen from outside if it is to survive

  18. Now for some really good news. My aged [1997] Rover 620ti passed the MoT test today. Still drives superbly but, I do look after my cars and those of my family… All MGs and Rovers. Fine car and a product of the once Honda><Rover partnership like many others they produced during that British~Japanese partnership period.

    A working partnership shafted immediately when the whole massively asset rich Rover Group sheebang was sold dirt cheap to the Bavarian outfit.

    We really excel at selling UK assets dirt cheap…often into foreign control who will always have our interests foremost when the going gets tough. Can you think of any other such spiv-like cheap UK asset sell off follies?

    Foreign UK asset ownership and control is the way toi go and go they will… just a matter of time. You can't beat it. Aint that the truth.

  19. I voted to remain, not out of any love for the EU, which has become too corrupt and too big for its own boots, but because it has given us access to a single market of 500 million people which is on our doorstep and which is a very popular holiday destination. Yes I think countries should be allowed to control their own borders, the EU should be cut back as an organisation and countries should be allowed to set their own immigration levels, but OTOH I wouldn’t want some parochial, second rate country that hates everyone else that some Brexiters would love to have. After all, the ultimate irony I saw before the EU vote was an Audi A3 covered in Brexit stickers, might have made more sense if it was something like a Rover 200.

    • Local Gloucestershire farmer has a new, shiny black BMW 7-Series. It has a sign in the rear screen.

      SUPPORT BRITISH FARMERS..

      Another farmer neighbour harvested onion crops from his vast fields. Bulldozed the lot into a massive mountain of Onions. Left to rot. I was tempted to bag a few. They looked superb. How wasteful. I wonder if that crop was subsidised by some of our Taxes redirected back from Brussels to the UK farmers.

      Whatever next. We’ll be throwing tons of magnificent but dead fish back in the sea following sensible EU guidelines.

      It’s what we do.

      Best such sillyness is nipped in the bud… Hey, nearly a pun… 😉

  20. I’m Dutch, I’m also european… I think the EEC was a very good thing to have.. I however hate what the EU has become…

    I hope the Brexit will be a catalist for change in the EU, but I allready see huge signs that the opposite is gonna happen (they want to make it so expensive for you that other counties would not even consider leaving what is supposed to be a trade union… I wish you all the best of luck though!

  21. What has happened to UK manufacturing since joining the “Common Market” in 1973;
    (1) Ford has transferred all its vehicle production from the UK to mainland Europe & Turkey.
    (2) Vauxhall now makes most of its cars in mainland Europe.
    (3)Rover Group went bust.
    (4) Peugeot closed down Ryton.
    (5) Most UK Commercial Vehicle manufacturing closed.
    (6) All passenger Train manufacturing went to Europe.
    So really what did the EU do for us???

    • “So really what did the EU do for us???”

      Con us left right and centre on all fronts. Would have stepped up their hyper-parasitical demands on the UK had this Nation been further conned into remaining in their flawed and now crumbling Union.

      Several folks employed in UK manufacturing I know dealing with manufacturers on the EU Mainland were told that the plan was to move all or most of UK manufacturing out of the UK to the mainland.

      Certainly since and including Thatcher, the clueless cushioned against reality folks we entrust to this Nation’s well being from all aspects and views of the Westminster political scene here allowed that to happen by selling off National assets spiv-like cheap mainly into foreign control. I was almost gob-smacked where Teresa May our new PM mentioned this soon after her appointment.

      The much asset stripped remnants of the former massively asset rich Rover Group sold to the Bavarians double cheap in 1994, is just one example of the many former UK assets now in foreign control or being asset stripped. There are far too many others.

      It’s what we do … or, just maybe what we did up until June 23rd 2016. Praise be for that.

      • so are you saying that we’re to blame or that the EU is to blame? You can blame the Bavarians for buying Rover, but not without blaming Thatcher, Day, BeA, and later Blair and the phoenix five. EU not in that list that I can see.

        I suspect that since brexit, there’s going to be a lot more manufacturing shifting to the EU, or more likely China. It definitely is a problem. I just don’t think brexit is the solution.

        • Yes, I am saying just that. ALL are to blame for getting it wrong including the so called European Union who have never had the UK’s interests high on their selfishly parasitical list of priorities. Now when we’re fully OUT, which could be at least two years time, the well being of the UK Nation lays with every UK citizen from the PM upwards or downwards depending on viewpoint. The answers and solutions are there to be found and put in effect. Then it will be for the UK Nation as a whole to make it happen. Although there are signs that it may have been diluted, I still believe we as a Nation have sufficient of the “right stuff” to not only survive but to thrive and prosper outside of that parasitical Union. OUT fully will take time. As will the Nation’s fate thereafter which will take far more time. None of it will happen overnight.

          By dilution of the “right stuff”, I have in mind those voting to remain did so simply because their main concerns were they did not want to pay more for their next new German car or Holiday. The web was full of such types prior to June 23rd.

          • But what is the right stuff?

            If you go back to the decades before joining the then Common Market, UK industries, where we had been significant players or world leaders, were already in steady or dramatic decline. Motor cycles, aircraft and ship building, to name but three. Whatever the right stuff was, we seemed to be losing it already.

            Joining the Common Market didn’t stop that, of course, but I am not sure what quality it is that the UK now has that will allow us to prosper if we put ourselves on the outside of the world’s biggest and richest single market.

            The UK is very inventive, but for a long time UK business seems to have been unable or unwilling to invest to build or maintain long term prosperous industries on the back of that. And if successful industries are built (ARM), we sell them off to overseas companies.

            So what is it about the UK that has changed or will change once we are out of the EU, and unable to influence it, to enable us to prosper?

          • “their selfishly parasitical list of priorities.”

            “that parasitical Union.”

            “those voting to remain did so simply because their main concerns were they did not want to pay more for their next new German car ”

            Really? Is there any need for that kind of language?

            Can I point out that I voted to remain but have never owned a German car in my life.

            We voted to leave, but has been amply demonstrated, we have no idea what leave means. To suggest that leavers voted in some monolithic way to achieve an agreed out come is silly; just as silly as suggesting that every one that voted to stay did so for the same reason.

          • The End of the British aviation industry can be traced back to the 1965 election when not only did the Labour party cancel TSR2 but allowed BOAC to drop some of their VC-10 orders in favour of buying Boeing 707s

          • The British aviation was in decline long before the the TSR2 was cancelled, tragic as that was.

            The MOD & our 2 major airlines seemed to drag their feet over technical matters & ended up with planes 1/2 a generation late, blunting export orders.

            The Duncan Sands White Paper in 1957 did far more damage the pulling the plug on the TSR2, cancelling almost every project just as some exciting ones were taking shape.

            The Lightning & Harrier were the lucky ones to slip the net.

          • Thought the following might be relevant in addition to my last comment re aircraft technology. I believe that most of the technology we developed was ‘given’ to the USA in part payment of the debt we ran up with them during WW II, who were, I believe, the only allied country that charged us!

  22. Biggles highlights Motor Cycles.

    Why build Motor Cycles at Meriden? Surely building motor cycles is for mugs like the Japanese. Far better to asset strip and turn the site into a quick-buck housing development without a care for the longer term. That’s just one small example. There are thousands of others out there.

    I rode my new Triumph to Meriden in the early 1960s and they rectified a problem whilst I waited. The enthusiasm was admirable and whilst waiting, a BRG E-Type blasted by on the local roads chased by a tester on my bike! None of your namby pamby 70mph speed limits back then.

    Drae stated :~

    “Can I point out that I voted to remain but have never owned a German car in my life. ”

    Good for you Drae… but, there were plenty of others who did! Not just obvious German product, many Fords and GM vehicles are turned out in Germany too. Many in fact. Spot the difference. Better still, next time you visit your local supermarket, have a look at the cars there. Some of those same buyers of German product exercising choice whilst in the next breath bemoan the paucity of decent jobs for their youngsters let alone careers. For every foreign product UK car consumers buy they are exporting worthwhile jobs and careers. “It’s about choice John”… We’ve chosen decline for far too long. On June 23rd, I saw a glimmer of hope that has now changed. Could be wrong if sufficient of the Right Stuff is not there. In which case, UK’s longer term fate is both assured and deserved.

    Had the majority voted remain on June 23rd our so called friends in the Union would have milked us dry. After all UK’s wunnerful economic success ( yeah right ~ Call me Dave and Gorgeous George talked it up OTT and in so doing, did UK no favours ) is due solely to membership of the crumbling and failing union.

    Still why should I give a monkey’s ?… Like many who voted remain, I’m alright Jack… for now. On second thoughts, all things considered, maybe I should have selfishly voted remain… Now, where’s those new BMW details. They make some nice cars like another Nation once did. I fancy a nice Black 5-Series… bollards to the UK’s economy. It’s all about choice.

    • MGJohn, your views are clearly strongly and sincerely held, but have you stopped to consider that UK manufacturing was in serious decline well before we joined the EU ?

      And if you have, could you see the possibility that the UK’s much improved economic position since the 1970s could be attributable ( if only in part ) to us being a member of this single market rather than having to compete from outside ?

      OK, you have a point about German cars dominating our market, but it could just as easily have been Japanese cars if we hadn’t joined the EU. Because we did join the EU the Japanese manufacturers set-up shop here instead of shipping in from elsewhere. These ‘Japanese’ cars are now exported from the UK to the EU and elsewhere. This is good for the UK economy. Accepted, it would be even better if the factories were UK owned as well – we did own them once, but that started to go wrong a good 20 years before we joined the EU.

      Anyway, it isn’t just about manufacturing. The UK economy is based on services now which as far easier to move around the globe so our challenge is to ensure the likes of banks, insurers, auditors, etc have good reason to remain / set up here rather than in Munich, Dublin, Paris, New York or Singapore.

      • Cliff, whilst what you say is indisputable, ask yourself this.

        Are we such a poor shower as a Nation that we are no longer capable of producing first class manufacturing? Of course we are not but, misguided Governments we entrusted every four or five years to look after the nation’s well being have all failed miserably to do that. Simply not fit for purpose once set up at No.10. Because it suited their paymasters.

        Yes, John, but Lewis Hamilton’s winning Mercedes is German is it not? Designed and built in Stuttgart no doubt. Red Bulls in Austria and Renaults in France etc… Even the British Williams has a German engine…

        And as my long standing friend and neighbour who always buys German used to castigate me for my choice of cars; “You cannot beat German engineering and reliability John”.. I say used to but he never does now. Not since his Porsche’s engine imploded leaving him stranded on the hard shoulder of the nearby M5. He did not tell me about that and I doubt he would anyway. His son came over and told me. He’s convinced my uber-reliable MG ZS 120+ bought new in 2003 is reliable is due to its Honda engine. I kid you not. By the way, more recently he told me how much it cost to repair the Porsche… more than I paid new oin the road ;price for the MG ZS.

        I lied about not giving a monkey’s… Obviously from my postings here and elsewhere I care very much about these things. We all should do.

    • I voted to remain and unless I am foolish, I should be alright too. But I still give a monkey’s.

      But I really don’t see what the glimmer of hope is yet. Those high profile individuals who campaigned for Brexit made emotional appeals for people to take back control and spend the EU money on the NHS. But now we know that they had no plan for what regaining control meant and the £350m for the NHS was never a promise at all.

      So in the days after the night before, what do we do?

      I suspect some people felt there was a degree of patriotism in voting for Brexit. But despite repeated Buy British campaigns over the decades, the UK has often chosen holidays abroad, cars, motor cycles and clothes made overseas. I doubt that will change.

      The consequences of leaving the EU will manifest themselves over many years and a definitive view as to whether it was good or bad might not be possible for 20 years or more. Whatever our new advantages are, we need to find them quick. Once we finally leave the EU team we are solo players competing with that team and the US and China, et al.

      • Must be something wrong with my aged minces. I saw that Bus and the £350 Million. No way did it say ALL that saved EU outgoings would be directed solely to the NHS. It suited many to see it that way.

        The NHS is NOT struggling due to lack of funds. It is struggling due to over demand. Believe all that “beneficial” mullarkey and official Government figures if you so chose. I do not. I prefer the evidence of my own ears and eyes.

        During the past three years, I have taken elderly relatives ( I’m well past my three score years and ten by the way ) and on two occasions, the two of us were the only ones there with English as a first language in that crowded waiting area.

        Two years ago, pick my son up at Terminal Five arrivals at Heathrow. Whilst there got talking to an immigrant Taxi driver waiting to pick up a fare. We observed obviously heavily gravid females arriving. The taxi driver told me they have a few words of English. Like “I want NHS”. His brother worked in a nearby NHS Hospital and its become a form of madness there such is the impact on services from immigrants.

        Today I called into my local surgery to collect a prescription for another relative. I was fourth in the queue to be served. Ahead of me were two folks with eastern European accents having limited English and at the head of our queue was another foreigner who I could not identify from their accent.

        Throw all the usual accusations but that level of hugely ever increasing demand on our NHS is quite simply unsustainable. Official figures suggest 600,000 new immigrants annually ~ I strongly suspect its far higher again based on my own observations and even those applying for NHI annually according to official figures are a far higher number. Of course, every one of those 600,000 new arrivals are in fine health and make no demands on our over stretched NHS. Ah yes but those are not the NET figures. Outgoing immigrants number 300,000 …. maybe those are the ones who have completed their treatment under the NHS.

        We’re mugs. The world knows it and will continue to take advantage as long as we allow it. Just one of the negative aspects of our open borders policy. There are many other negatives far worse.

        • But my point wasn’t about the NHS provision or immigration (different issues, perhaps to be discussed elsewhere), only that the high profile advocates of Brexit had no plan, deceived people and appealed to people’s emotions.

          I think the country voted to come out for the wrong reasons. But, the deed is done and that’s that.

          The question remains: What is our advantage once we are outside of the EU?

          • One worthwhile advantage is control of our own destiny and future well being. It will not be a doddle, it never was IN or OUT of the EU.

            Yes, it will take much time, many years in fact. However, as we all now know, it’s up to all of us to make it happen. We will all have to earn our living in a shark infested commercial world. For far too long we have been the only ones playing fairly. Our friends on the mainland never played fairly although appearing to do so. That has to change now. The mugs have voted OUT.

  23. Is the wish to regain control of our own destiny a ” wrong reason ” ? Is the wish to prevent malign interference by foreign nations ( and here I refer predominantly to France and Germany ) a ” wrong reason ” ? Is ( and I believe this was the strongest factor in the vote to leave ) the wish to remove from corrupt and utterly incompetent unelected gauleiters in Brussels the power to overrule our Parliament a ” wrong reason ” ? if so, perhaps Biggles will explain why

    • If those were the reasons that all the 52% voted to leave (are they confirmed by research?)and if those perceptions fully described our membership, I might agree with what I think you are saying. But I’m not sure that they were or that they do.

      Was there really malign interference? And I suspect that EU parliamentarians or officials as a whole (some countries might be exceptions) are probably no more incompetent or corrupt than our own politicians or civil servants.

      We have, of course, had our own corrupt parliamentarians jailed for perjury, fiddling expenses and a former UKIP MEP (sent to the EU Parliament by the electorate in the UK to oppose waste and corruption?) was also convicted of expenses fraud. These failings are pretty much universal and we cannot cite the UK as always an exemplary nation. Hopefully we are no worse than most, but history suggests that incompetence and corruption will not be completely banished once we leave the EU.

      But anyway, in 1973 we joined the then Common Market and agreed to abide by the rules (a quality we usually regard as a national virtue). A position confirmed by a UK referendum in 1975.

      Most decisions of the EU were approved by a qualifying majority or for some desisions all nations had to agree (or so I believe – please correct me if I’m wrong)and of course the UK had it’s veto. I would guess that much of Europe was just as frustrated by the UK, as we were by them. It was give and take.

      Set all that aside though because my response to MGJohn was not contesting the decision. As I said, the deed is done and we are heading out. No argument.

      But still the question I was asking is: What advantage do we have once we are out of the EU that will help us to prosper?

      Why is this better for us?

      • Apologies – I must correct myself.

        It was not a UKIP MEP. He was elected on a UKIP list but was thrown out of UKIP before he could take up his seat. He sat as an independent.

  24. Biggles : it’s not the elected members of the EU Parliament who are the problem ( and who, as we have discovered , are largely powerless ) ; it is the unelected officials of the European commission who have caused such trouble and in my view led to this result . I voted for membership in 1975, but we had not at that stage been subjected to a shower of ” directives” from a shower of people like Juncker who have , as Farage so memorably said, never done a day’s proper work in their lives – nor been voted for by a single European citizen

    • From what I have read there might be reasons to think that Mr Juncker is unsuitable for his role. But that he has not had a job outside of politics is probably not a good one.

      What makes somebody competent? What experience or job would be a meaningful prelude to a political career? Mr Farage was, I believe, a commodities broker before becoming a politician. An occupation that would cause many people to look askance if that was described as proper work or that it would give a person an understanding of the life or ordinary people in the UK he represented. To be honest, I have no good idea of what a commodity broker does day by day. But has it helped Mr Farage to be a good politician? I would say not.

      My point is that a person`s previous career might help or hinder them as a politician but in itself is not usually sufficiently good reason to deride them. Nor is it, I think, a good reason to vote for Brexit – the most far reaching decision for the UK in my lifetime and one which needed to be decided on more substantive issues.

      When I started my few posts I was trying tease out what people thought were the substantive issues that made Brexit good for the UK, but now here I am debating the reasons for the decision. Something I was trying to avoid. So, if I have the willpower to resist, this might be my last comment on the decision.

  25. Interesting that the economy hasn’t collapsed since we voted out, as the in campaign said it would. Unemployment continues to fall, inflation is almost nil, economic growth is still steady and companies continue to invest in Britain. I voted In very reluctantly due to my job, but even now think this will be secure after Brexit.
    Also the arrogance and snobbery of many in the Remain campaign may have swayed even more people to vote Leave. Both parents voted Leave and according to some Remain campaigners are Sun readers, bigots, chavs and fascists. Actually they’ve never bough a copy of The Sun in their lives, have worked since leaving school, are not racist and certainly aren’t fascists. They’re just ordinary working people who were tired of the EU and worried about immigration.

    • Glenn… you’ve taken the exact words right out of my mouth! your parents circumstances are similar to mine.

  26. @ Hilton D, too right, but now is the time to move on from point scoring and try and secure the best deal for Britain outside the EU. Somehow I have a feeling Germany isn’t going to abandon its best export market in Europe and somehow Europeans won’t want to stop buying Minis and Land Rovers. Also for upmarket British products there is a huge demand for them in the Far East, America and Australia.

    • Glenn, I share your optimism about the European market for British built cars too. It will take a couple of years for an Exit & new Trade deal to be established and until then the UK is still a full member of the EU, so in many ways it’s business as usual.

      Things should settle down in that time – I hope!

      • Reality check…. it’s being reported that Jaguar’s new EV will be built in Austria and Land Rover’s new Defender will be built in Slovakia.

        Is this the start of the exodus of traditional British brands ?

        Does the average buyer even care where the car is built ?

        I’m resisting the temptation to say ‘told you so’, but it’s very difficult.

        • The expansion of LR manufacturing to new European sites was common knowledge long before the referendum and is nothing to do with so-called Brexit.

    • The economy hasn’t collapsed in six weeks, but the signs aren’t looking good.

      Although before the referendum there were already fears of difficult economic times ahead, the result seems to be having an adverse effect.

      Bank of England cuts interest rates to 0.25% and expands QE

      https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/04/bank-of-england-cuts-uk-interest-rates

      Growth in new UK car sales slows in July

      https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/04/new-uk-car-sales-slow-down-to-a-trickle-in-july

      I’m not an economist so I have no clue as to how this will all play out, but it does look as though at least in the short term there will be adverse consequences. The BoE wouldn’t throw all this at the economy unless they were really worried.

      My guess would be that there will be many ups and downs prior to the final exit, at which point the real consequences, for better or worse will become apparent.

  27. Biggles: Your guess that there will be many ups and downs on the run up to the final exit from the Union is spot on.

    On all known past UK economic form there have been many ups and downs. Some far more serious in the UK’s economy. So nothing new here at all. It’s the way it works and always has done and will continue to do so. Mind you, those “we’re much cleverer than you” types in the UK media, especially the uber-clever BBC hugely over rewarded luvvies will grab at any possible negative indicators and bang that newsworthy drum very loudly on a “told you so” you plebs who voted EXIT basis. Whilst at the same time giving any possible positive indicators a low profile or completely ignored.

    All it now needs is for Trump to win come November and the BBC luvvies’ and all the rest will have their cups runneth over with chagrin… Mind you, that means my long standing bet on Clinton to access the White House at good odds will be a loser. So win or lose, I shall be laughing either way.

    Apparently, according to the current “It’s a sign” stance of UK’s media, just about any future event having a perceived possible negative effect on the UK’s economy will be solely due to the pleb majority voting OUT.

    Forming conclusions so soon after the Referendum result is the stuff of crystal ball gazing guesswork. Nothing more.

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