Keith Adams tells the story of one of the most influential small cars of all time – the Peugeot 205.
Launched in 1983 to reinvigorate its maker’s fortunes in the supermini sector, the 205 ended up becoming France’s most popular car before being widely copied by rivals during its 15-year production run.
Peugeot 205: The car that rebooted its maker
One should never underestimate the impact the Peugeot 205 made on the automotive scene during its production run. Larger than the average supermini at launch in 1983, the industry grew up to meet it and, for Peugeot, the 205’s style defined the next generation of cars – paving the way for its transformation from conservative manufacturer of solidly-engineered saloons to industry pacesetter.
We’ll go further. Although the Peugeot 104, 305 and 505 were well-respected cars, and sold in decent numbers, they didn’t have the mass appeal of their rivals.
The Renault 5 was entrenched as France’s best-selling car and the financial benefits of that were clear to see. Once established on the marketplace, the 205 proved to be a substantial hit both at home and in export markets – and that made the company cash rich, funding an ambitious expansion of the entire PSA model range.
The background
Peugeot had, of course, been a front-runner in the supermini sector: the 104 was an early entrant into the market and had sold reasonably well. It also sired a number of offspring including the Citroën LNA, Citroën Visa and Talbot Samba, and clearly had some influence on the Renault 14. And yet, it never really caught the imagination of the cool people who craved chic city runabouts.
Yes, it went on to sell 1.6 million in its 1972-1988 production run, but that achievement was dwarfed by what followed. However, rewind to the mid-1970s and the biggest issue was profitability for Peugeot. Although the company offered a range of cars that spanned the 104 to the wonderful 604, all were dwarfed in terms of sales by Renault, which offered a wider range of cheaper-to-build cars that enjoyed better economies of scale, thanks to wider component and platform sharing.
The associated costs of its Government-encouraged takeover of Citroën (to form PSA in 1974) were also playing heavy on the company. What it needed was a new and big-selling car to take on and beat the Renault 5.
Projet M24 is born
Originally known internally as Projet M24, the new model was conceived to plug the gap between the 104 and the 305 and be cheaper to build than both. As such, it was always going to be a little larger (3705mm) than the established supermini norm at the time, so epitomised by the Ford Fiesta (3648mm) and Renault 5 (3540mm).
Development kicked off in 1977 with the project ramping up from early 1978. It was designed to sit on the 104’s platform and use the existing Douvrin four-cylinder X-engine and transmission-in-sump drivetrains as well as a number of new engines in development – and was planned to work well with petrol engines spanning 954cc-1360cc. The 1580cc and 1905cc GTIs would join the programme later, as would the three diesel power units it would eventually use.
Suspension would echo the intelligent all-independent set-up that would end up being used across the Peugeot range. and which debuted in the 305 Estate. That meant MacPherson struts up front and trailing arms with torsion bars at the rear. What made this layout so clever was just how compact it was, giving minimal intrusion into the luggage area.
According to the excellent Car Design Archives, styling went in two directions initially. The Peugeot Design Team, led by Design Director Gérard Welter, worked on an organic proposal (below, in a more refined form), while Pininfarina initially began with a more angular design (above) which incorporated elements of the Peugeot 305 and upcoming 505 as well as the Chrysler Alpine. The Italian design would eventually evolve into something more organic and closer to Welter’s proposal.
Pininfarina dropped
In October 1978, and in a remarkable turnaround for Peugeot, the Pininfarina design proposal was dropped in favour of the Welter-led team’s theme after a design shoot-out (below). Considering the Italian styling house had been solely responsible for Peugeot’s design direction for decades, this was a big decision. But the latter had a packaging advantage – the spare wheel was moved from the engine bay to under the boot floor, resulting in a lower bonnet line and a sleeker set of proportions.
Pininfarina didn’t have a chance, really. With this decision made, over the course of the next 18 months the Peugeot 205 rapidly evolved into the streamlined and aerodynamic shape we know so well today, with the final styling signed off in early 1980. Aerodynamics were very important, and much work was put in at the Pininfarina wind tunnel to get the drag coefficient down to 0.35 in production form. That compared very favourably with its late-1970s competitors, although rivals such as Fiat (with the Uno) would end up beating that figure.
The plan was that the new model would be launched as a five-door, but the three-door version was developed in parallel, which explains why it ended up being so well resolved in its own right.
The interior was put together by Paul Bracq’s team, which came up with a pleasing and airy place for the driver and passengers. It also incorporated a dashboard that could be altered according to trim level, which was very much ahead of the game in the late 1970s.
Prototype 205s were built and tested from 1981 and, because so much of the car’s packaging was already in use across the PSA range, it didn’t take long to get the programme up to speed. There were some marketing conflicts over naming – the initial thinking was that the car would be called the 105, but this was dropped because Peugeot’s Director-General, Jean Boillot, correctly identified the new car as being more upmarket than the 104 – a fact which explains why the two cars remained in production side by side until 1988.
Production began in Mulhouse in November 1982 with press drives taking place in Morocco in February 1983, following its public debut on 24 January 1983. At this point, images and range information were revealed to the press – a small range of five-door hatchbacks powered by petrol engines spanning 954cc-1360cc.
On to launch…
On 15 February 1983, the Peugeot 205 was fully launched, and it would be fair to say that automotive world was caught napping. The 205 was the latest in a long line of 2-Series Peugeots, but what made this one so special was that it looked and felt so right for its time, and was perfect for the buyers who had grown out of their Renault 5s and wanted something a little more grown up, without losing the undoubted appeal of small car ownership.
The model range reflected the wide choice that a typical European supermini offered by the mid-1980s. So, the entry-level was the 205 base model powered by a 45bhp 954cc Douvrin engine and four-speed transmission shared with the 104. Base price in the UK (when it arrived in October 1983) was £3895 with the most expensive GT coming in at £6145. For comparison, an Austin Metro in base spec cost £3899, and an MG Metro would set you back £5249.
The model range looked like this: Base, GL, GR (1124cc), GT (1360cc), GLD and GRD (1769cc diesel). Peugeot used the opportunity to quietly drop the 104 from the UK model line-up, although it would live on for a further five years in its home market, continuing its tradition of running new models alongside old ones in parallel.
What the papers said
The assumption today is that the Peugeot 205 exploded onto the new car market and blew the doors off all of its rivals. The reality is somewhat different – for instance, CAR magazine and the Peugeot 205 have enjoyed an on-off love affair. From launch, it acquitted itself well, and was well regarded, but hardly set the world on fire – LJK Setright’s beloved Fiat Uno was the class-leading, game-changing supermini of the moment, while the 205 was good, but not exactly great.
However, the influential What Car? magazine called it in favour of the Peugeot, concluding in its first group test against the Austin Metro, Fiat Uno, Daihatsu Charade and Vauxhall Nova: ‘Deciding between the 205 and the Uno is no easy matter. Both are closely priced, have broadly similar space and equipment, and both are highly attractive to look at. So, perhaps it’s a decision between the rounded, classical elegance of the Peugeot and the sharper, more chic boxiness of the Fiat.’
It went on: ‘For our part, we prefer the Peugeot for its beautiful body, its outstanding comfort, its sophistication and its excellent economy potential. If the 205 really is as reliable, cheap to run and easy to work on as Peugeot claims, it must be the surest winner Peugeot-Talbot has ever had on its hands.’
The French award-winning supermini
Praise indeed… It would go on to win the Car of The Year in the magazine’s April 1984 edition. Summing up, What Car? said: ‘The qualities that earn the 205 our Car of The Year title are the traditional Peugeot values of comfort, civilisation and refinement. But it’s far from traditional, for by bringing much of the smoothness and sophistication of bigger car into the supermini sector, Peugeot has helped the small car come of age and, with the Fiat Uno, have thus pioneered a whole new generation of “big” small cars.’
That result was reversed in the European Car of The Year, with the 205 taking second place behind the Fiat Uno in the 1984 awards. But it was close, with the French car taking 325 points against the Italian’s 348. Third? That was the Volkswagen Golf Mk2, with just 156 points.
Peugeot 205 on the road
In 2019 and to mark the launch of the 208, Peugeot arranged a drive from Mulhouse to Geneva in a fleet of heritage 205s in as-new condition, Writing for CAR, Keith Adams, driving a 205 GL, remarked at the time: ‘Handling is roly-poly, as you’d expect in a car with long-travel suspension and no anti-roll bars. But it’s tied down pretty well, with controlled damping that contains the 205’s desire to heel over quickly in bends, making it an elegant corner taker in the right hands.
‘The steering is weighty, but full of feel, and the long-throw gearchange is sublime, and utterly mechanical to use. But for such a lightweight car, the ride is astonishing – it lopes along beautifully, soaking up all the negative cambers, undulations and broken surfaces that rural France throws at it. In many ways, it reminds me of my Citroën GS – praise indeed, given how complex that car is in comparison.’
What might have been…
Meanwhile, Pininfarina had seen the writing on the wall, and its longstanding relationship as Peugeot’s favoured design house had taken something of a dent when its design theme for the 205 had been passed over. Spotting a niche in the market, the Italian carrozzeria decided to have a crack at extending the model range’s appeal.
Taking the five-door hatch as a basis, it created the 205 Verve concept and displayed it at the 1984 Geneva Motor Show. Sitting on the same wheelbase as the standard car, additional length was added to the rear of the car, turning the hatchback into a remarkably pretty small estate car. The rear styling treatment was particularly neat, while the loading bay was unencumbered by much of the intrusions you’d find in rival models.
Unfortunately, despite its good looks, the estate version was not taken up for producton by Peugeot, although styling elements would make it into the later 405 Estate. The concept was at least revived in spirit by the later 306 Break and 206 SW models.
Model developments – and an electric version
The 205’s range would soon expand. In September 1984, the three-door version rocked up, expanding the appeal of the 205 by offering arguably cleaner styling and more youthful appeal. The new bodyshell had already debuted in the GTI version – which we’ll get to later – and, like the regular five-door model, was available in a variety of versions. The trim levels started with an X to differentiate them, aside from the range-topping XS sporting model, which equated to the five-door GT.
Peugeot 205 fans were treated to an all-electric version, which was considerably less usable than the current-generation e-208. It was powered by an array of lead-acid batteries stowed under the bonnet above the 30hp electric motor to offer a potential range of 86 miles and a maximum speed of 62mph. Acceleration was leisurely, with a 0-30mph time of 11.6 seconds. You could fully charge it in ten hours from your domestic power supply.
It was never offered on general sale, instead being trialled with various local authorities – with Peugeot discovering that the world was not yet ready for electric mobility, even within the confines of the city. The work put into this car would bear fruit with the 1990’s 106 Electrique, of which more than 3500 examples were built.
The fast Peugeot 205s
Launched in March 1984, the 205 GTI would end up being the most influential model in the range – and the one with the longest lasting legacy to this day. Powered by the brilliant new XU engine in 1.6-litre 105bhp form, it was pitched directly into the heart of the rapidly-growing hot hatch market, then dominated by the Ford Escort XR3i and Volkswagen Golf GTI.
As a GTI it was perfectly pitched. The 205’s elegant styling was beefed up with the 1980s-obligatory red pinstriping, bodykit and wheelarch extensions, Unlike many of its rivals, the 205 GTI wore this addenda perfectly. Performance was solid, but not as quick as the front-running Fiat Strada Abarth or Volkswagen Golf GTI – but its 0-60mph time of 8.7 seconds and maximum speed of 115mph were more than competitive with the Ford Escort XR3i. It was also usefully cheaper than its Italian and German rivals.
Rather like the regular 205, the GTI’s brilliance wasn’t always recognised from the off. CAR nailed its colours to the GTI, offering readers the chance to win one of three examples in 1984, but it was not without some reservations. In its first long UK drive feature, the esteemed LJK Setright, ‘Steady’ Barker and Ian Fraser were far from completely won over by its combination of hard ride, biscuit-tin build quality and hair-trigger high-speed dynamics.
Few would argue that the best was yet to come with the arrival of the 205 GTI 1.9 in 1986. Alongside the recently updated 1.6-litre (to 115bhp) the 130bhp 1.9-litre was a real firecracker – the 0-60mph dash was dispatched in 7.8 seconds and the maximum speed upped to 125mph. It also earned a reputation for being a bit of a widowmaker, thanks to well-documented stories of lift-off oversteer catching out less-than-skilled drivers. Today’s tyre technology has largely defeated that, though.
The buying public loved it to such a degree, that in the smartest circles, owners used to respond to the ‘what’s your car?’ question with a simple answer: ‘it’s a 1.6’ or ‘it’s a 1.9’.
In March 1988, the legendary 205 Rallye joined the range, following on from the previous Talbot Samba Rallye. Designed as a track and competition-focused 205, the Rallye was stripped to such as extent that it lost its radio, storage bins, sound deadening – even its rear ashtray. It gained bucket seats, red carpet and a three-spoke steering wheel and was powered by the crackerjack 1294cc TU engine developing 100hp. This short-run homologation special proved so popular that it ended up becoming a regular production model.
Opening the roof and extending the loadbay
Peugeot utilised the expertise of Pininfarina for the Cabriolet (and it’s probably from here, as well as because of its genuinely handsome styling, that the urban myth that the 205 range was styled by Pininfarina came from). the two-car convertible range was unveiled in March of 1986 with the addition of the CT and CTi (later to be joined by the CJ). Based on the existing XS and GTi models these two models again hit the cultural zeitgeist competing with popular ragtops including the Ford Escort and Volkswagen Golf Cabriolets.
There were also commercial XA and the XAD versions which joined the range in 1986. In addition you could also buy the more van-like Multi and dubbed 205 Fourgonette, which was sold in France only.
In 1987, the 205 received the brilliant TU-range of engines also used in the Citroën AX and BX, finally putting an end to the long-lived Douvrin X-engine, and an upgraded and higher-quality interior was ushered in. The 205 XS and GT were vastly improved as a consequence of receiving the same engine you’d find in the Citroën AX GT – and, for many, these cars represented the real peak 205.
Into the twilight
The 205 was facelifted in 1990. And so successful was its styling that other than some clear indicators and new rear lenses, the overall look was left unchanged. What the latter chapter of the 205’s life did usher in was a slew of special editions such as the the Gentry, Roland-Garros, Color Line and the range-topping GTX and 206 GTI 1FM model to name but a few.
Despite its advancing years, the 205 continued its winning ways, becoming the best-selling car in France in 1990 and in 1991 – the year that the 106 was launched, ushering in a two-pronged replacement programme alongside the 1993 306 range for what was known as the Sacre Numero.
Despite its advancing years, the 205 continued to be developed further. The model range was also realigned with desirable semi-sporting D Turbo go-faster diesel setting the pace as the market’s first DERV-powered hot hatch with all the mid-range torque you could ever want, a 0-60mph time of 12.2 seconds and a maximum speed of 108mph. This was at a time when a Ford Fiesta diesel struggled to beat 15 seconds to 60mph…
Time was catching up with the 205, though. In 1993, the addition of a catalytic converter dropped the 1.9-litre GTI’s power to 124bhp, while the much-loved 1.6-litre was axed. There wasn’t long to go, though – the following year, the 1.9-litre GTI was phased out as the range was narrowed to accommodate the 106 and 306. In the UK, the 205 quietly dropped from the price lists in 1996, with living on until 1998, when the line finally came to a halt, making way for the new-generation 206.
A lasting legacy
That was quite a run – and the Sacre Numero had become a legend in its own lifetime, even without considering its motor sport pedigree.
Lest we forget there was Peugeot’s huge Group B rallying success with the 205T16 (above) – two World Rally Championship constructors titles, as well as some amazing performances on the Pikes Peak hillclimb. And finally, we come to the 205 GTI, which ended up becoming the 1980s greatest hot hatchback.
No wonder the 205 went on to sell 5,278,000 units during its life – and why Peugeot had a devil of a job replacing it. In the end, the 106 and 306 never quite managed (although both were brilliant), so it wasn’t until the 206 that the legend was finally supplanted properly – except, as we know, that car marked the beginning of Peugeot’s descent into the design mayhem of the 2000s and 2010s. However, a measure of a car’s importance is how its rivals react to it, and the French company must have been very flattered when the Ford Fiesta Mk3 emerged in 1989 looking like an Uncle Henry-sponsored clone – but without the charm.
Conclusions
Those early lukewarm road tests really were an anomaly – and proof that sometimes customers know more than road testers. Here’s a car that grew into its skin to become of one the best superminis ever made. Rather like Alec Issigonis’s Mini, the Peugeot 205’s significance and sheer brilliance took time for us all to appreciate. Yes, the 205 really is that good.
Once it was up to speed, though, there was nothing stopping the 205 – it came a range of engines that spanned 954cc-1905cc, were fuelled by petrol, diesel or electric (yes, as mentioned above, there was an electric 205), and power outputs right up to 130bhp for the legendary 1.9-litre GTI. You could get it in three- and five-door forms, as well as in two flavours of vans. It ended up being spun into the larger 309 (it even shared its side doors), and then went on to inspire a generation of svelte-looking Pugs – large and small.
Today, it’s rightfully celebrated as a classic, and Peugeot is right to trumpet the 205’s achievements. More than that, though, the 205 was the true 1980s game changer – as it predicted a move to larger, more sophisticated superminis. It also proved that a car doesn’t need to be expensive or exclusive to be truly classless and accepted anywhere – just stylish and utterly fit for purpose.
Is the Editor of the Parkers website and price guide, formerly editor of Classic Car Weekly, and launch editor/creator of Modern Classics magazine. Has contributed to various motoring titles including Octane, Practical Classics, Evo, Honest John, CAR magazine, Autocar, Pistonheads, Diesel Car, Practical Performance Car, Performance French Car, Car Mechanics, Jaguar World Monthly, MG Enthusiast, Modern MINI, Practical Classics, Fifth Gear Website, Radio 4, and the the Motoring Independent...
Likes 'conditionally challenged' motors and taking them on unfeasible adventures all across Europe.
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30 years old- and still looks incredibly fresh. So much so that they never needed to do anything significant to rejuvinate up the design.
Always a really good drive- fantastic steering and very good handling. Not the most solid build quality though, but you can’t have everything.
I’d love a 5 door 1.4 as a small runabout. Or a GTi for some serious hooning.
I had a 3 dr 1.8 Turbo D. It absolutely flew, to the point where I could worry my mate in his mk3 Cavalier SRi. Great cars.
Pete Burns from Dead or Alive did some modelling then before his music career took off !! ….nice but give me an MG Maestro any day.
The 205T16 was a viciously powerful competition car. It also had a very French feature. While almost every other maker had in-line engines in their GpB monsters, Peugeot went transverse-mid engined. This caused issues when flying over crests as the flywheel torque would cause the car’s front to rotate downwards, leading to heavy landings.
I once looked at a 205 diesel, but the interior was like a punishment cell. I bought a Rover 216GSi instead – gorgeous interior, fast, economical…
I shall give my XS a little pat on the bonnet this morning. 24-and-a-half years and 220k miles after leaving Sochaux, she’s still a hoot to drive and still looks gorgeous, bless her.
I had a 205 XS which I consider to be the best car I have ever owned. Eventually my wife made me sell it in 2001 when we were expecting my first child, as probably not unreasonably she did think it was safe transport for our new born. I received £395 part-ex for a Citroen ZX. It was in beautiful condition, had done 95K and ran like a Swiss watch. To this day it is the only car I regret moving on.
Post some pics of it in the forum, please 🙂
Wonderful little car, a great drive even in basic 1.1 form. I later had a ZX which had much of the same fluidity in the way it felt.
If only car makers would unleash similar pics as the one featuring ‘that’ model. Brilliant. I love a bit of galic eccentricity.
As for the 205 itself? It really was a memorable chapter in Peugeot’s history and, with the exception of the more recent 106, 206, 306, 405, 406 and 605, I feel they have not been able to create cars with the same degree of conviction about their attributes (although I do like the RCZ). This was highlighted by the comments for Mike Humble’s recent article about Peugeot.
Small cars is something Peugeot used to excel on and I would hope the 205 will be viewed as a landmark car in the company’s history which their current product planners and design engineers will revisit for inspiration for the future.
Interestingly, whereas the 205 (and the other ones I have already mentioned) were more about driving ‘thrills’ without too much in the way of frills, Peugeot’s sister company Citroen is now known more for the frills of its DS range based on high levels of equipment, bespoke trim and pricing. Perhaps Peugeot should return to giving us more of the ‘thrills’ and less of the frills?
How did Peugeot manage to get the 205 so right, and yet so many of its current cars are so wrong?
Great little cars from Peugeot’s heyday.
They’ve aged well, the occasional example can still be seen on the road, either as a collector’s GTi, or even as a workhorse diesel. No rust, and the design still looks smart.
The 106-306 split didn’t quite work, perhaps if the 106 was the ‘206’ the successor would’ve been crowned properly.
With the 208 they’re trying to get some of the charm back into their supermini sector.
In 1983, the VeraPlus was shown, effectively a 309 preview.
Recognise the doors? They were reused from the 205.
The 206 numbers are up because it is still being sold in France as the 206+, and as the C2 in China.
That bottom picture is a rare example where the car is more attractive than the model (not an issue with recent Peugeots)
At a time when PSA and Renault knew how to build small cars… My sister-in-law had an automatic 3-door 205, well equipped, comfortable, downright rapid with the slightly detuned GTI engine. It felt like a big auto-scooter in town, yet was comfortable even for long drives on the motorway.
And now the first of these modern looking cars will be officially classics here in Germany. Hard to believe. But last year we already saw the Mercedes 190 enter classic status…
@7 – Keith.
Will do – you’ve prodded me to give her a wash’n’brush up first as I don’t have many recent digital pics of her.
@11 – Will.
Yes, the 206 does live on as the 206+ and it is testament to how Peugeot have trashed their legacy.
The 206+ is a sort of cut’n’shut: a 206 body with the awful 207-style ‘gob’ stuck on the front half. The UK market has been spared this aberration, fortunately.
I won’t post a link to a pic as it might be seized by the Obscene Publications Squad…
An 206+
French manufacturers used to make runout models of their small cars as a budget option.
The 5/supercinq carried on til the mid 90s, when the Clio had been around since 91. I remember seeing a GB-reg’d ‘M’ model (95?).
The previous Clio was sold as the Clio Campus when the new Clio was introduced.
There was also some crossover between the 206 and 207, Pug dealers sold both even in the UK for a while.
As Renault and Peugeot-Citroen look to move upmarket, we are seeing less of this, with the likes of Dacia, and potentially a new Talbot, taking the mantle of the cheap supermini.
You know you are getting old when you remember when Peugeot made good looking, desirable cars.
1983 to 1996 was a pretty good production run for the car..
It is , production started in late 82 and finished late 98 ( 96 for UK production)
@15
I always found it amusing that the 5 Campus was sold in France as the
“Renault 5 Five”
Not sure the French language police let that one through!
I run a 205 diesel which has been in the family since 1996. Utterly reliable, a hoot to drive, best car ever in the snow, has covered 100,000 miles, mostly driving round Leeds in second gear. Vaguely worried how I’ll replace it when it eventually fails to proceed.
Even the basic 205’s were nippy little things, plus the 205 GTI was a must have for yuppies in London in the 1980s. There arer still quite a few 205’s on the road around here, and they don’t seem to be rusty either. I bet Pug are wishing they could bring the magic back, and have another ‘205’, but now they really have lost the plot entirely
I used to have a Citroen Visa GTI. The front half was 205 GTI (engine and suspension) rear half was Visa / 104 rear suspension + 309 brakes. About the most fun car I ever owned. Not as pretty as a 205 GTI but 5 doors and apparently lighter with better rear suspension. Wish I had kept it. Got replaced by a company Mondeo 1.6 🙁
Once borrow a friends 205 GTI 1.9, abosulte hoot to drive and the styling was fantastic. Shame that Peugeot styling has steadily worsened.
@Magnus – speaking of obscene publications, is the rally car in the second picture really sponsored by Penthouse?
@22 – Matt.
Indeed: auto porn sponsored by female porn…
A UK TV ad campaign at the time for the 205 showed some lovely female drawing a heart with lipstick on the rear window – although I don’t think the campaign was linked to Penthouse.
Peugeot dealerships were pushing out window stickers to coincide with the campaign. Naturally, my 20-year-old self had one on the XS but, sadly, it didn’t have any positive results for me… I tore it off in the end, worried about looking like a sad old perv.
Perhaps the marketing team at Longbridge should get in touch with the publishers of Razzle. It would certainly get people talking about the MG 6.
A great little car, whatever way you look at it
The Lion goes from Strength to Strength
This is one design that has stood the test of time.
I still see a B reg one near me in decent nick.
Every motoring journalist vomited similes over the 205 GTI, and even the pube haired pillock absolutely adored it. The 205 really does deserve the title ‘modern classic’, and to say it stayed in production so long with just minor cosmetic tickles says it all. They had it more or less spot on from day 1
205GTI doesn’t float my boat particularly…
Oh, you do like to provoke, Mister Adams…
They did attract ‘the wrong sort’, I suppose – particularly in later years. The 1.9 is almost too powerful; much prefer the 1.6, myself (after the XS, of course).
Good grief, re my comment 23, I never thought I’d find this on the interweb:
Looks fresh because it’s an absolute master class in getting the proportions and detailing right… NOTHING looks out of place… Also a rare example of the mid life facelift genuinely improving the situation as oppose to just changing it.. The facelift back lights were brilliant..
Back in 1989, I was lucky enough to take part in an internal Rover ‘ride and drive’ exercise to compare an R6 Metro prototype with all its key competitors. Two cars really stood out a mile from the rest – the R6 and the Peugeot 205. Both just felt so instantly ‘right’ and fully sorted. The R6 at that stage was a little less refined than the 205, but sharper handling. Really enjoyed driving them both, But you know what? I climbed into my MG Maestro 2.0 EFi afterwards, and it felt even better than all the superminis – quiet, punchy, effortless, comfortable, but still pretty quick and taut handling. Still the most underrated car ever !
I’ve got five 205s on my drive at the moment, all GTIs. I’m afraid they all have either BX 16v or XM turbo engines, sorry Keith 🙁
BTW Pininfarina did produce a proposed design but it was rejected in favour of the in house one.
As for the 1.9 being too powerful, it is slower than modern diesel repmobiles and has been for at least ten years. It is a good example of how average car performance has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years.
There’s a Mi16-engined Peugeot 205GTI in my back yard now as I speak. It’s taking root, and I’m actually close to burning it with fire.
What’s wrong with it? If you need parts or info I can probably help you out. Please don’t burn it, at the very least use its parts save a BX or two – 1.9 205 wheels on a phase two BX 16Valve works very well in my experience.
Also this year marks the 30th anniversary of the Fiat Uno, the Fiat that at least didn’t rust and probably saved the company over here as the model range of the time that included the Strade and ageing Mirafiori was notorious for premature rust, terrible build quality and awful resale. While never as big a success as the 205 and still with some reliability shortcomings, the Uno at least proved Fiat could make a reasonable car again and sales were healthy in its eleven year run.
PS wot no Nova, Vauxhall’s first supermini which came out in 1983, sold in shedloads and wasn’t bad actually?
I know. I can’t do them all at once 🙂
As the old bull said to the young bull, looking at the paddock full of heifers, take it slowly and do ’em one by one.
I had a new one of these on 1st August 1987 a 205 1.6 GTI finished in bright red. I had it almost 8 years and practically lived it it. I loved it to bits. I went everywhere in it. One summer I recall taking it down to the south of france and comming home drove from Cannes to Calais in 11 hours some 880 miles I recall, all in one day. It flew along the auto route. Why did I ever part with it, I ask myself.
Come back E144 XPP all is forgiven
One of the all-time great small hatch designs.
Mine arrived, after something of a wait, in November 1987. I ran it in with a 500 mile round trip on 5 November, it was downhill after that. Never let me down, but long journeys left me hard of hearing, and with nerves strained by the NVH. Build quality was strange – precisely but cheaply made. The doors felt as substantial as biscuit tin lids, the dashboard materials were like something from an East German suitcase.
Two years on, the lease was up and the Golf GTI arrived, the Peugeot instantly forgotten. Why did I ever part with the Golf?
An Aunt of mine has owned a pair of 205 1.6 5-door Automatics in the past (either in white or red), prior to switching to a more modern Hyundai i10 and has always commended how enthusiastic the 205s were to drive.
The only (minor) flaws in the 205 were no GTi 16 version (with 148-160 bhp) and the lack of a more powerful XUD diesel (such as the 90 bhp 1.8 XUD Turbo-Diesel that was later fitted to the Rover R8), with both engines also being available on the 309 (with the existing 309 GTi 16 being sold in the UK).
@JackHerer
It’s my son’s 205. He sold it as a project on eBay and the buyer STILL hasn’t collected it. If he doesn’t soon, I’ll recommissioned it and have it myself!
Truthfully, it’s an exciting and amazing hot hatch which is still genuinely quick – markedly so, as it’s on its original 1.6 gearbox…
Nice cars….
I got a Delta HF instead on a GTi 1.9 when I was young…
The 80s cars had so much personality 🙂
So, what does that Mi16 GTi need again? 😉
(Offset pedals ruin 205s for me, but they’re undeniably fun).
The offset pedals, A friend let me to drive his drive his 1.9 Gti,first time out, I set off with a nice smooth start then as I pressed the “accelerator” the car stopped suddenly, all the while my right foot was pressing the brake pedal not the accelerator, shows how much torque in the 1.9 engine, the 1.9 would be easily move away from rest in first gear with the engine just idling and no help from the accelerator pedal
1983 was a very significant year for new cars. Fiat had the Uno, which would stop its slide down the sales charts, Vauxhall brought out the Nova, which gained them a new market, Ford launched the Orion for buyers who wanted a saloon and were put off by the Sierra, Toyota launched a new fwd Corolla, which would sell and sell, and, of course, there was the Austin Maestro, the great white hope of British Leyland.
Didn’t 83 also see the launch in the UK of the Datsun K-10 Micra?
Peugeot claimed that the 16 valve engine would fit under the 309 front but not the 205. Seems they told porkies….
A friend competed in the 16V championship, he preferred the 309 chassis setup to the 205, he had a 205 1.9 Gti 16V and imported a 309 bodyshell, using the components from the 205 he created a RHD 1.9 Gti 16V 309 long before Peugeot thought of it. With a hot camshaft, the car stumbled below 3000 rpm, and “race” geometry for the chassis, the car would dart a car-width left or right in a millisecond, steering it was a fingertip operation, you basically “willed” the car though a bend with barely any rotation of the steering wheel
Working in France (Paris) in about 1981/2the 205 was so visually appealing I was always looking out for them, hint, they were everywhere!
A friend converted a LHD 309 to RHD and installed the 205 16v engine, he claimed the combination of the chassis/engine combination was superior, he drove the UK 16V race series in the car, I will not dispute his opinion, he always knew what he was doing
Magnus @ 6
I used to love my XS! 220k miles – amazing!!
30 years ago?!! God, I am getting old!!!!!!!
Hard to believe that this car was launched 30 years ago (OMG I’m really getting old!), and all these years later it still looks better than the 206, 207 and 208. The GTi immediately became one of my favorite cars and to my knowledge, Peugeot still hasn’t topped it despite having released more powerful hot hatches since then.
Yorkie @ 47, the Micra deserves two mentions, firstly for a very long and successful 30 years, and also this is the 20th anniversary of the very successful and still seen mark 2 version from Sunderland. However, the newest one is vile and production has been moved to India.
I can tell you what that Mi16 engines 205 needs.. A BX..
#36 “PS wot no Nova, Vauxhall’s first supermini which came out in 1983, sold in shedloads and wasn’t bad actually?”
Back in 1987 I had a dolomite 1500HL that had given me a spot of bother and was only doing 30mpg so I went after a 205 5 door diesel. Unfortunately the dealer and I were a few £100s apart in terms of valuation on the Dolly so I walked away. I always thought the 5 door looked better balanced than the 3 door incidentally.
I ended up with a 2 year old Nova 1.2 2 door saloon that was brilliantly reliable and averaged over 40mpg even driven enthusiastically. It was also a doddle to work on. The saloon was not the best looking but it carried all my gear with no problems when I moved to Nottingham and gave great service.
The 205s either seemed very good or very bad, and I recall that quite a few GTis had very short lives having gone backwards through hedges and walls. The GTi was notorious for snap oversteer if you lifted off too quickly on a wet bend.
Perhaps time for a Nova feature?
It’s coming!
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/classics/2013-04/peugeot-205-ticks-past-338000-miles/
We had one of thse come into the garage a few weeks ago. I can’t believe it’s been over 30 years now since the 205 was first released.
Curiously the early LC10 prototype loosely reminds one of a bigger less refined even more angular version of the Pininfarina M24 proposal, while the latter looks like it would have been suitable for something like the Allegro or earlier Maestro (albeit the latter with a more Harris Mann LC10 or Montego type front).
Was aware the Visa was part of the 104 family, however did wonder if the 205 (and by extension the 309) sat on the same (if modified) platform. Meaning Peugeot had a platform capable of underpinning anything from a City Car to a C-Segment model over a 26 year period, similar to Fiat with its own FWD trio (it is not clear if the Strada/Ritmo, Regata and indirectly the mk1 Seat Ibiza can also be considered part of the family).
What always is ignored with PSA in the eighties is that they bought a few factories and gained a euro-wide dealership of Chrysler…
It did help a lot IMO that they gained all those dealers with loyal customers who used to buy Simca’s, Sunbeams etc… And then offer them a decent car t replae tr Chrysler such as the 205 and later 309 and 405.
If you drove an Alpine/Solara/1307/8/9 the 405 was a perfect replacement. If you had a 1000/1100 or Horizon, the 205/309 would do the trick…
I always strongly believed the biggest gain for PSA in taking over Chrysler europe was the Poissy plant and a wide dealer network for their producs…
@ Antigoon, don’t forget the Ryton factory in Coventry that could produce 100,000 cars a year for the British and Irish rhd markets. Ending the less than successful Talbot range of cars and moving over to producing Peugeots saw sales take off and the future of the once troubled factory secured well into the noughties. The 309, 405 and 306 ranges were genuinely good cars that people wanted to buy and being made in Britain was another attraction to some buyers.
A cracking car. A mystery what went wrong at Peugeot with the awful 207/308 Mk 1 era.
Also a shame that PSA dropped the brilliant independent rear torsion bar suspension and replaced it with a cheaper torsion beam.
Hello everyone.
For me, stylistically, the 205 is exceptional … I almost wrote a masterpiece but I really mean it.
Everything in the design of this car is successful, we can look at photos from the front / rear, 3/4 rear or front, plunged or against plunged, it is always pretty.
It’s really remarkable because yet there is no striking style effect, but just ideal proportions (perfect?).
Funny detail, as Peugeot saw the failure of the Renault 14, they were afraid because there are striking similarities (hollow body, rounded stern, general posture …)
and yet one is pretty and the other is not.
You’re right when you point out that then the styling of the Peugeot ’90s / 2010s was awful, but today,
I think Peugeot has the right karma again for the new 208s, 2008s (really very beautiful!) and 3008s.
The new 508 also has nice clothes.
PS: I live in France, (I work in Germany) and it is an almost daily treat to read you, 1000 thanks and a very happy new year to all
The 205 and probably the 405 were really Peugeot’s swansong. Before these they were seen as a class above Renault, Ford etc as they built solid dependable cars, the 504 being the epitome of this. The 80s cars, which were brilliant, were more mainstream, but other than the interiors, which were a bit flimsy (though probably no worse than the opposition), they were still good for big miles. It was a shame they lost their way, not only in the styling department but in their quality.
The 05 series was mostly good apart from the 605, but big French cars have often been hit & miss.
Some of the 06 series did quite well, but they lost their way with the 07.
Peugeot’s golden era was from the 205 to the 406, where every car they made sold in huge quantities, was excellent to drive and looked good. Phasing out Talbot and assembling Peugeots in the UK was another smart move, as patriotic buyers had another reason to buy a Peugeot, and market share increased. Also Peugeot Citroen started the long boom in diesel sales as the XUD engined cars proved to buyers that diesel no longer meant extremely slow, noisy and undesirable cars.
I’m loving the articles about cars other than from the AR stable. Great account – you tell the story well!
Perhaps an article on the 309, the first Peugeot to be built in Britain, should be next as the car saved the former Rootes factories in Coventry and started a long period of Peugeots being assembled in Britain. Also Peugeot still assemble vans over here at the two Vauxhall factories.
The old 504 saloon & Estates were rugged cars from experience of riding in them on desert roads in Qatar (1977). The 405 in my opinion was better than the 309 and became a good rival for Cavalier’s & Sierra’s. The P405 1.6GL hire car I drove had plenty of power for its body size
Had Chrysler Europe not suffered bad commercial results post-PSA takeover which necessitated using the 104 to speedily create the Samba, it is likely the 205 would have also spawned a Talbot / Chrysler version to be assembled in the USA.