Opinion : Why the antagonism towards JLR?

Have your say

I was deeply shocked, hurt and disappointed to read most of the comments in response to the recent opinion piece on the new Range Rover (L460) by Keith Adams.

I’ve done my best to buy British-built cars and bikes since I got my very first new Austin Montego estate in 1986.

I currently own three Hinckley-built Triumph triples and a Range Rover (L405). I don’t fit in with any of these lazy and ill-informed clichés of RR ownership – I live in rural Cornwall, I’m not rich and buying a new Range Rover was the crowning car buying achievement of my life.

I’ve owned it from new (September 2017), I’ve done 123,000 miles in it so far and could never afford to replace it, like for like. However, I will be keeping the car for as long as it remains viable to keep it on the road. I am also into environmental issues – I appreciate the benefits of keeping a car long term, none of the family ever fly, we all holiday locally and this is the only car serving the whole family.

When I read some of these pretty vile comments (with a few, rose-among-the-thorn, exceptions) and the lazy clichés about reliability (that I would normally only expect from the, usual suspect, German, Japanese and Korean car-buying drones), together with many readers’ inexplicable tendency to never look beyond the Austin/Morris/MG/Rover parts of the old BL combine, I wonder why I’ve bothered being a regular reader of AROnline for around 15 years(!) when there is so no much open hostility to current LR products and their owners.

I welcome your comments.


  1. My son works for JLR, along with 40,000 other people across the company. Most are employed in the UK. We need those jobs, and we need Tata to continue to invest in the company. The more sales the better.

    • Completely agree.
      40,000 is a large number of people; I seem to remember MG Rover only having 6,000 in the end.

    • I totally agree. JLR is a magnificent brand and still makes so.e of the best cars un the world, so ignore the snippers. I have owned BMWs 5 series in the past and they are good cars, but last time I Brough and FPace, it absolutely knocks spots off the BMW and Audis I have owned. We need to support our own UK manufacturing industry so support JLR don’t knock it

      • Over the last 20 years I have owned 2 Discoveries and 2 Jaguar XF the latest being an R-Sport. No reliability issues not even minor niggles. Well designed and terrific to drive

        • Over the last thirty years I must have had forty odd JLR products. I’m glad to hear that some of them are well built. But my issue is that they are wandering further away from the qualities that made them great. Jags were always the best looking cars in their class, inside and out. Despite minor niggles the mechanics were incredibly tough. Land Rovers – and Range Rovers – would take you across Africa and back. In both cases this is no longer true.

          I also fear for their product planning – the array of competing models reminds me of BL.

          But experience of JLR warranty and the complexity and delicacy of the more recent products means I’d be terrified of investing in a new one.

  2. I have noticed in recent years an increased inverted snobbery within BMC – Rover circles. It began with the 75/ ZT (Metro owners complaining the 75 is a terrible car because they are ‘unsafe’ and ‘prone to corrosion’). I have also witnessed the same crowd voicing hatred towards anything (new) Jaguar, all RR Evoques and now sadly, Range Rover.

    It’s a sad state of affairs.

    • sorry can you let me know which Metro sites, clubs, groups etc you mean please as i have been a member of most of them and haven’t seen this situation at all ?

      I have never been without a classic Mini since passing my test, and for most of my time I have owned and driven, worked for and been involved with LR’s including during my 32 years in the Army and I have been astounded over the years of how many so called car lovers have disrespected the LR, it’s a hard vehicle to beat and I guess gets a lot of sh*te thrown at it because of that fact !

      • There is a fairly large FB group called ‘MG Rover Enthusiasts’ that regularly slags off the 75/ZT. Unfortunately, the criticism I quoted was from a keen Metro enthusiast who had responded to a post about the 75 and refused to acknowledge the irony in what they had written. Sadly not an isolated case.

  3. I love my Land Rovers. I’ve had about sixteen Range Rovers, a few Discos and a Defender. However, I’ve become increasingly disappointed with the company moving away from vehicles that are tough enough to do what I do (precision driver and 4×4 guide in Morocco). Toyota etc make vehicles that are up to the job, so it is possible.

    The new Range Rover is another technological overkill that won’t survive in the conditions that made the marques reputation.

    • Well it will be interesting to watch what happens, but I know for a fact the testing is very extensive, I know because I used to be involved with testing the electrical side of the vehicle whilst I was a senior Design Engineer / Contractor at Gaydon

    • The new RR won’t survive in the conditions that made the marques reputation? WTF is that even about? The new RR is a magnificent vehicle that emphasizes and underscores the history design and heritage of one of the most iconic vehicles ever built. The British people should show more pride in one of their greatest industrial success stories.

      • In 1970, Land Rover launched the original Range Rover by crossing the Darien Gap. I can’t see the new one managing that on its 21 inch wheels.

        • Didn’t the Range Rovers have to be “rescued” by a Series Landy, though? Not a proper Land Rover unless it’s got leaf springs blah blah blah 😉

        • And the same old school Land Rover enthusiasts were laying into it at the time for being “less capable than a real Land Rover” – because it had coil springs

        • Nor could the original Range Rover

          Both Range Rovers suffered complete transmission write off within days of being shown the jungle, one of the expedition was flown back to Solihull tby the RAF o meet with Land-Rover transmission expert Geoff Miller to explain what and how the transmissions had broke on the Range Rover’s, Geoff Miller then had strengthened transmissions built up and these were then flown out from Solihull by the RAF.

          The real hero of the expedition was the Series II Land Rover the expedition bought in Panama to use a pathfinder to explore routes to see if the Range Rovers could manage them.

  4. Would anyone really want to go back to the dark days of Jaguar at the end of the seventies when the company was close to death and the cars were about as reliable as a chocolate fireguard? Yes the Mark 3 XJ was a good looking car, in an era when SUVs barely figured, was a fantastic car to drive and had the beautiful wood and leather interior lacking in modern Jags. However, would anyone want to buy a car that was often riddled with faults and in V12 form would struggle to get 12 mpg, and whose image was on the floor in many countries and whose resale was terrible. At least the modern JLR products sell in massive numbers and are highly desirable cars that are as well made as anything from Germany.

    • The Jaguar XJ Series 2 and 3 were terribly unreliable but the current range is everything but British. When you inherit leaper from Sir William, you have to keep the marque’s britishness otherwise you do not export. If you need a German car then you buy it German-designed and maybe German-made.

  5. Why are they “lazy cliches about reliability” ?

    From everything I’ve read, either online or in magazines or any other media, they aren’t lazy cliches, the comments are based on real-life experience. The stories of poor reliability are backed up by a lot of direct evidence.

    I don’t dislike JLR products, but I wouldn’t own one because I’d be worried about reliability.

    • The facts are simple, when one person has a fault all of a sudden loads of people also jump on the band wagon, now I know this because part of my job at JLR was warranty and I was on the development team for S type from 1996 till 2001 when I moved to AML the warranty often didn’t sit with the claims being made.

      • Your comment about lazy cliches being repeated has in itself become a lazy cliche. Every time someone says something you don’t agree with, out comes the same reply.

  6. Why are you so offended? It’s not your company is it? And as for ‘lazy clichés about reliability’ the facts speak for themselves – JLR, even whilst it’s gone excessively upmarket in terms of price has not improved reliability at all – quite the opposite in some models – people are entitled to expect when spending anything from £40k to well over £100k something that is reliable – JLR have terrible form here. I think you’ve taken this all too personally and perhaps have a degree of rose-tinted spectacles going on, which is kinda odd given both Jaguar and Land Rover have NEVER been known for making reliable cars.

    • When I purchased my Defender Tdi new back in 1998 (which I still own and use today) I was looking for a vehicle for West Africa. I was deciding between a Land Cruiser and a Defender. A colleague who was a real LR enthusiast told me that he would buy a new Defender. But that I should take delivery, use it a lot and hard for a month then take it back to the dealer before shipping to get the faults rectified. Faults there would be, I was assured…. But I did so. And back it went to the dealer to have a leaking crank oil seal replaced and the air con repaired. That was 24 years ago. It is still going well despite having visited dozens of countries in Europe, West Africa, North Africa, Middle East and South America. Would I buy a new LR product now? In truth, no. Much too complicated and I doubt they would successfully and reliably do what my Defender has done. It never let me down.

  7. It would be good to hear from current owners of JLR products in this thread. I owned an X-type estate for 7 years and did 120,000 miles in it with no major failures – starting at 100,000! There were niggling electronic issues which got worse as the mileage increased; but it was very nice to drive and own. I replaced it with a Ford Mondeo – partly to have a change; and partly because there is no XE estate.

    • While I’m a fan of JLR, people should be able to (fairly – ie, with evidece) critique our favourite marques.
      And Ken’s coment highlights the perennial failure iof British car makers (JLR and MGR) to plan models to offer the bodyshell alternatives that the Jap car makers do so well.
      Ken only shifted he says from Jag to Ford as the X-type’s successor did not have an estate bodyshell option. Surely that is not too expensive an option to engineer onlto a 4 door saloon car? Jag misses another sale to Ken to Ford’s benefit as a result of what? Lack of product planning or finance?
      (to those who say get a Range Rover if you want an estate, that doesn’t work for those who want car handling drive experience…)
      Its the lack of product planning that scares me for JLR’s future. Losing customers you already have just because you don’t offer that bodyshell is a worry.

    • I’m the proud owner of a MY2019 F-Pace R-Sport (petrol), and I’ve not had a single problem with it.

      I’ve seen the occasional horror story from owners groups (mainly diesel engines, I might add) but that can be said for any premium car brand.

      Personally, I love the cars JLR produces, they’re stylish, well built, and very much “British” in design.

      Also, incredibly fun to drive in comparison to their sterile German counterparts (I have owned those in the past, too).

  8. With the exception of the Discovery 5 which I feel has no design reference to its well liked predecessors and looks like it is ‘hanging off the coat tail of the Range Rover Sport’ in a number of ways, I am a big fan of Land Rover’s model line-up.

    Land Rover is producing a range of products that many people want to buy and they are also making a considered choice to buy them because the most affordable offering starts at around £31,000. Just as important, the company is employing tens of thousands of people in the UK to design, engineer and build these vehicles. Unfortunately I am not in a position to buy one but I still take an enthusiastic interest in what they are producing. A smaller, more affordable and with less technology Land Rover along the lines of the original Freelander would be a lovely vehicle for me, but I appreciate it might not be where the company wishes to place the Land Rover brand these days.

    I am glad you drive an L405 Range Rover as it is a very graceful and elegant design, without appearing brash like many of its more expensive rivals.

  9. I think it’s important that all of us who lament the fall of the British motor industry do all within our power to finish the job started through over-diversification in the sixties, labour relations in the seventies running all the way through to the Phoenix 4. Only by working together and repeating received internet wisdom will we be able to successfully run down the remaining traces into obliteration.

  10. According to the JD Power Vehicle Dependability Survey for 2021, Land Rover finishes comfortably last, with Jaguar third from bottom.

    Admittedly, this is a US survey, and doesn’t represent European conditions, driving habits or service, but it suggests there is some substance to the “lazy cliches” about the unreliability of JLR products. What’s more, this is nothing new, but has been going on for years.

    • We used to laugh about this because for instance whilst working on the Jag S type the Lincoln LS was getting far better reviews, all the while these muppets didn’t realise the S type was based on the Lincoln LS but was enhanced to iron out the faults of the LS, such as the mere fact you could hear the gaiters crunching on the steering rack as you turned from lock to lock, I could list hundreds of these anomalies that still apparently made the LS a better car ! so I don’t believe there reports at all and would place them directly in the bin for what they are worth

      • Glad you had a laugh about this in the old S-Type days. It’s now 2022 and customers are still complaining about reliability. Meanwhile, Jaguar’s sales are so poor that the viability of the marque is in question. What a laugh. Stupid customers.

    • To add to my previous comment, I see that you were involved in development. It may well be the case that Jaguars are perfectly reliable from your point of view, but that is not the customer *perception*, and has not been for a long time.

      This is something that sales, marketing and service should have been giving maximum effort into correcting. If the cars are as reliable as you say, this should be common knowledge. And yet Jaguar still has this poor reputation. Simply waving this away as customer ignorance will not improve matters.

  11. I’ve always been a lover of Jaguar, and I have had quite a few. My issue with JLR is design, but it has nothing to do with Range Rover, because Range Rovers still look distinctively like Range Rovers to me. However, since 2009, Jaguars no longer look distinctively like Jaguars, except perhaps for the F-Type sports car. You just can’t buy a distinctive Jaguar saloon any more, yet it’s not long ago that you could. I’ve had XJ6 models from the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, right up to the 2000s, all of which were beautiful (and most were very reliable). I’ve had a modern S-Type and an X-Type as well, which were also great cars, and still distinctively Jaguar to look at. Design-wise, with that one exception of the F-Type, Jaguar started to lose the plot under Ian Callum, in my personal opinion, and they don’t seem to have found it again yet, even though he’s gone. The current range of saloons look like they could have been made by anyone. As such, I’m sticking with my distinctive and very beautiful 2004 XJ6. I suppose in a way, I don’t really mind that, purely because I love it, but I think it’s very sad that they just aren’t making any saloons that look as good as mine any more (outside or inside).

  12. My son and I have owned a Jaguar X Type 3 litre Sovereign estate for 17 years.
    It let him down last weekend, but that is the first time with 134,000 miles on the clock.
    I reckon that is very good. By contrast, the car it replaced was a BMW 528i Touring which was in a state of total mechanical and serious electrical and suspension related collapse after 6 years and 85,000 miles.
    We have had 7 Land Rovers between us. All have been reliable, bar the first (a 1980 diesel). That was bought second hand from a sheep farmer. The sheep urine corroded the rear chassis member, which failed pulling an (empty) horse-box. I don’t blame Land-Rover for that.

    • @ Mark Seligman, a joiner I use for work on the house has a 14 year old Land Rover Freelander that while a bit tatty outside and messy inside due to the nature of his job and a dog, has performed almost faultlessly since he bought the car at 3 years old. Also I still see several farmers driving elderly Defenders that while often battered and smoky, seem to keep going. I think so long as these cars are serviced regularly and aren’t full of electronic toys, they will last.
      Interesting, BMW don’t seem to fare too well in these car surveys, but we’re not supposed to say that.

  13. Because its what the British do. Everyone’s an ‘expert’ on why JLR products are unreliable but looking at the comments above, I wonder who has actually owned a recent JLR. We’ve got 2 2021 F Paces in the family and they far exceed expectations verses the previous BMW and Merc we had. JLR have 000’s of orders banked up. This is what matters, not lazy keyboard ‘experts’. Of more concern is why JLR is suffering so much more than their peer group re the chip shortage and the to me, the curious direction (?) Jaguar is being taken in by the French guy in charge which dictates our 2 Jags will be replaced by non JLR products when the time comes.

  14. Judging by the photo at the top of this article, perhaps another problem is the design/look of modern Rangies. They remind me of the “Brutalist” architecture of the 1950s such as that found in London’s Treilick Tower and the National Theatre. The eye and heart yearn for a nice curve here, some subtle design flair there… rather than the “square box” a three-year-old child might draw.

  15. Red Merle asks: “Why the antagonism towards JLR”? in response to the new Range Rover (L460).

    When I was under five my mother was taking me to the shops one day, and we passed a baby in a pram. She told me many years later I had asked her, “What’s it for?”

    I ask the same question about many of the JLR four-wheel-drive range: what are they for?

    Perhaps I am at a disadvantage because I have never bought – or driven – a road vehicle because of the way it looks, or its acceleration, or its sound system, or even its ride. The wide variety of employers’ vehicles I drove – cars, pick-ups, small vans, large vans, lorries, buses – made me realise there were good and bad models of all these types.

    The seven cars I have owned – from 1965 to the present – I bought based on two criteria: practicality and price. The expression “Form follows function” was coined for architecture, and the result has been some very bland buildings. But it sums up what I looked for in the cars I bought; would they do the job, i.e. getting me and my passengers from A to B reliably and reasonably comfortably.

    After years of reading through the articles and comments here, I have found that most contributors are more concerned – or very concerned – about ‘style’, or image’. And vehicle manufacturers today put style and image high up, or even at the top, in any list of features. That certainly is true of JLR’s output since the demise of the original Defender. And it has been true of Range Rovers for more than a decade. Why?

    The first essential of any product is that it sells well. Or the maker goes bust. Despite all the hype about ‘saving the planet’, I see few real attempts to scale back production of any consumable goods – from the number of types of coffee in a supermarket to the quite unnecessarily complex cars offered for sale. Indeed, the more complicated a car the more it gets puffed.

    As for the L460, “What’s it for?”. Every day I see countless 4 x 4s in the local shopping centre car park – almost all driven by townie residents who probably will never take them off tar roads. I see the occasional 4 x 4 that is a real work vehicle that may need its low range box when hauling a trailer or in mud or sand. But very rarely.

    Red Merle says he lives “in rural Cornwall”, an area I have known since the 1950s. Knowing the many narrow, twisting country lanes in the county, I’d have thought something the width of recent Range Rovers would be the last sort of vehicle to drive along them. A bit of mud off a tractor’s wheels would probably be the only thing to reduce traction; hardly the need for four-wheel-drive.

    My only holiday in Morocco in 1986 was with a Renault 4, definitely two-wheel-drive, and almost all on tar roads. From Marrakech my wife and I stayed at or visited Agdz. Ouarzazate, Zagora, the Todra Gorge. Merzouga, Rissani, Tinihir, Erfoud – and several other places, some reached by dirt road. The Renault 4 coped admirably. And we saw a number of four-wheel-drives.

    I am not sure what Mark Willenbrock means by a “precision driver”, but I’m sure I drove fairly precisely in the mountains of Lesotho in Series Land Rovers and a Land Cruiser; likewise in the Kimberley region of Western Australia. Despite one roll-over in a Land Rover – when I was a passenger – I’m still around. Perhaps because I got all the ‘thrills’ I needed in the course of my work, I have not needed to go green-laning, or to compete in some off-road event that involves not hitting flimsy course markers. Or maybe I’m just boring.

    And perhaps because I made sure I enjoyed whatever work I was engaged in, I seldom had to find my pleasures pretending to be what I wasn’t – including not driving four-by-fours for ‘fun’. So I am boring!

    • What are they for? – To satisfy the wants of the thousands of people who want one globally, generate revenue and profits for JLR and secure the employment of the many thousands of people who work for the company – Business is not your strong point is it?

    • Hi Eric – as a precision driver I work for film and television, typically driving a Russian Arm – or U-Crane – but also crossing over with stunt drivers. The main difference is I don’t get to crash.

      I’m a huge Renault 4 fan and you’re absolutely right that all of the places you’ve mentioned are very easily accessible. However, Morocco is a vast country (twice the size of California if that helps) and there are huge areas still not accessible by paved road. Sadly the R4’s are all getting old and they’re really too small to carry 5 big people, a weeks luggage and recovery gear, but I can tell you that an L322 will disintegrate when driven regularly for long distances on our corrugated Saharan tracks. From the L405’s and Disco 3’s that come into the shop, I’d say my use would mean a suspension rebuild every year.

      My speciality is sand and for that you do need four wheel drive, but for the rest of the terrain two wheel drive is fine if you have decent ground clearance – and a suitably rugged build quality. Little available today does; the notable exception (and modern equivalent to the Renault 4) being the Dacia Duster.

    • “The seven cars I have owned – from 1965 to the present – I bought based on two criteria: practicality and price.”

      I suspect you’re in the minority. People might buy a fridge or a washing machine based on practicality and price. But cars (particularly expensive cars) are bought to project image and to impress neighbours and colleagues. Not many people care too much about functionality – they just want the biggest and flashiest car they can afford the monthly payments on.

      99% of families could manage perfectly well with a new Dacia Duster.

      But our roads aren’t packed full of Dacias. People still buy Audis and BMWs and Mercs and Land Rovers and Range Rovers, because they want cars that can do more than the bare minimum.

      It’s good for UK plc that people still want Land Rovers and Range Rovers, even if they don’t *need* one, and I’m happy that the L405 and New Defender have been sales successes.

    • Your child’s question of “what’s it for?” describes very much my view of Jaguar.

      For Land Rover, I sort of get it. While I would never, ever buy an SUV, if I did it would be a Land/Range Rover. I like the styling – inside and out. There’s an image, almost an aura about them that appeals to me at some level.

      With Jaguar, I have often had a similar “feeling” for the cars. The old XJ6 and XJS had it. The XJ40 and 90s Jags, less so, but still something there. When the XF came out, it was like the Bangle BMWs in redefining the cars – but without being a complete eyesore. The future looked bright.

      What’s left of this? I don’t like the styling or the interiors of modern Jags – the XE being the worst offender. They are cramped inside and generally uninspiring. What are they for? Why buy one? The competition at least knows what it is, or what it wants to be.

      Like the Land Rovers and the old Jags, there’s something undefinable about the marque that sets it apart. Trouble is, I can’t define it, and it appears that nobody at Jaguar can either.

  16. My brother bought a four year old XF 3 years ago with 10k on the clock. So far the brake pads had to be changed at 20k, and had a problem with a sensor at 25k which once replaced hasn’t played up since, and it now has 50k on the clock. The only thing wrong with it is the wheels have alloy corrosion. In comparison, my 3 series, bought at the same time with 5k on the clock and same year, has a recurring fault with the sensor on the battery saying its losing energy. The 3 series is supposed to tell you when u have less than 80% juice, but it can come on after a long journey even though you started OK, and on the return journey is doesn’t come on. Its a common 3 series fault. Would I swap between the Jag and the 3, probably if I did the mileage my brother does as it clocks 70 to the gallon, but I don’t do much mileage now I work from home, but really not much between the two.

  17. I own two JLR cars, a 2007 XJ and a 2008 LR2 (Freelander 2 in the UK market). The XJ is the best car i’ve ever owned and despite its age only costs me about C$2000 a year in parts and maintenance. The LR 2 keeps going through Canadian winter after Canadian winter. Three years ago, with the clock over 210,000 my wife and I decided to run it till it died thinking it would only last another year or so. (Death being defined as a repair cost of more than C$1000.) Closing in on 240,000 now and (touch wood) still going. people have said in this thread how they don’t understand why you need 4 wheel drive capability in SUVs in some climates. I totally get the skepticism, but in Canada you often need 4WD because your driving on ice or through snow and in spring, the previous winter has usually torn the roads up so badly that you need off road suspension just to negotiate them.

  18. As a commenter on the previous thread, I’m happy to clarify my position. I’m currently on my third Range Rover and I’ve adored them since I first sat in one when i was about 7 years old. Given half a chance, I will never drive anything else, although the current skyrocketing fuel prices may put paid to that, sadly. I also do really like the new one, although I’m still not totally sure about the rear end styling.

    My first RR was a 1994 Classic Vogue SE that didn’t put a foot wrong in the four years I owned it. The current one is a 2006 L322 4.2V8 Supercharged and it has cost me a bit in repairs but nothing that you could specifically point at and say “Ah, that’s because it’s a Land Rover” (the three biggies last year were a perished coolant pipe, a radiator and a fractured cable in the wiring loom).

    Number two however, was a bit different. The engine’s cooling system cost me over £2000 for a rebuild for issues that are now commonly known – it was the BMW 4.4V8 petrol engine, hence my concern in the other thread that Land Rover has returned to a new BMW engine for the new RR. In addition, I finally got rid of it when I was told that its strange grumbling noises meant I needed a new torque converter and a gearbox rebuild – another £3000.

    Ironically, given that these issues were in a BMW engine and a ZF gearbox, I can’t help wondering if the items that make these British cars unreliable are the German bits they fit to them!

  19. I love the buy British stance and think more people should be like this. I do wonder if we just aren’t that great at selling ourselves. I think of the lies that VW sold to the world over how great there diesel engines were and it was all lies and yet they don’t seem to have any issues selling cars.

  20. What absolute nonsense. You can’t claim to be ‘into environmental issues’ when you are driving round in a 2.5t SUV at a rate of 25,000 miles per year.

  21. I drive a 2019 XF Sportbrake and it is fantastic – well made and up to now only one minor fault – a lose hose (almost certainly not a manufacturing defect) repaired quickly and easily under warranty.

    Superficially better quality than the many plasticky feeling Mercedes I have rented over recent years (can’t comment on other premium makes as I haven’t driven them)

    I would strongly recommend Jaguar to anyone

    • First things first: I love the design of the new Range Rover. Where most cars are (over) ornate with creases, folds and what not the RR L460 is very clean. I like that. A lot.
      What I don’t like is the sheer size of the thing, and of course the weight. From 2.500 kg and upwards.
      And OK, it may be able to wade through 90 cm of water, but you deep pile carpets will be ruined when water ingresses in the car. The first RR, stil a beautiful airy car, after 50 years, had an interior you could hose out.
      And of course the price.

  22. It’s amazes me how people seem to be blind to German car failings. BMW vanos, Old 335i engine early fatal failures, vw 170pd engines eating injectors and DPFs(not to mention diesel gate which JLR didn’t get involved in and all the Germans did) N14 mini engines (yes build by the French but designed by BMW) just Google N14 issues, most cars with air suspension Q7 etc. Never hear the UK Public bash these cars. Same fault on a JLR product though, christ you’ll see 35 pages on pistonheads slagging them off even though the majority haven’t owned one….

    • Possibly because other manufacturers did something about the failures. JLR are still insisting there isn’t an issue on tdv6 crank failure, despite their own extended warranty classifying it as a ‘known issue’ which is then not covered.

  23. A word about Land Rover engineering standards. I used to work on an amphibious car project. After our US engine supplier stopped production, we needed a V6 engine and power train which was tough enough to send 100% of its power to the rear axle as a matter of course, as this drove the jet drive on water in our car. We tested a number of power trains – obviously I can’t identify the ones which failed, but the only one which would stand up to this duty cycle was the KV6 engine and transfer case from the LR Freelander.

  24. As someone who has been a customer of JLR and lived with several of their products, I would say the animosity is partly due to the appalling reliability of their cars, their generally poor levels of customer service and the obnoxious way they treat customers when issues arise. They don’t stand behind their products, so I guess people feel that they don’t deserve any loyalty.

    Yes, they are a major UK employer and it would be dreadful if they failed. The brands have a proud history and many of us are huge fans of them. However, insulating them from criticism will do nothing to prevent them from going down the same road as BL etc.

    Personally, my major beef with JLR is that they have completely trashed the Jaguar brand, something I find a little difficult to forgive.

  25. At the end of the day it probably doesnt matter to JLR. Those showing antagonism are hardly their target market and could never afford one of their cars in a million years. Those infected by nostalgia for the old Defender will also outnumber those who actually got their cheque books out and bought one by around 100:1

  26. So if we’re looking for real world experience of JLR products: Discovery Sport owner here since 2016 (Ingenium engine version). 73,000 completely trouble free miles of excellent motoring. The infotainment isnt the best and the ZF transmission is a bit laggy but it’s one of the best cars I’ve owned. The car was chosen because it was the most space wfficient, most economical option available at the time of purchase. Plus it looks good. No blind patriotism involved – it was simply the best choice at the time. Cheers.

  27. I’m on my second XE and they have both been completely reliable, great to drive and economical. The present car (70 plate) is the first new car I’ve owned in thirty years which has not had a single issue of any sort. OK, I’m coming from a history of Metros, R8s and R75s, but it’s still impressive.

  28. I think a lot of the negativity towards JLR on here is simply jealousy. I see it on other forums.

    Conversely, when I bought a brand new MG ZR which was utter shite (its pretty much all documented on here) I was accused of lying.

    You can’t win. But it’d be nice to see you do more features on here regarding your Range Rover. The site is light on actual owners of cars using them and writing about them on here.

  29. Why not ask some farmers, builders and ex servicemen why they love their Defenders so much, when they are very much the old school of Land Rover and not a fashion statement? They’ll probably tell you their cars are built to last, are excellent off road and in terrible weather conditions, and are fairly cheap used with good spares back up. Some farmer living in Alston will need a cheap, tough vehicle to get to his animals and also something that will tow a trailer full of steers to the nearest market.

    • A friend and his set who enjoy the Cotswolds lifestyle, Cricket, Shooting, , Salmon Fishing on the Tweed, tell me the car they favour is the Kia Sportage AWD, with 7-year 100,00 mile warranty, at £37500 against £100,000+ for the RR leaves a bit of loose change for a Purdey shotgun, what they have in the bank, they like to keep.

      • Assuming you actually are a “cyclist”, have you ever had anyone question your choice of high quality cycle, on the basis that you could have picked up something (that also has two wheels and a saddle) for a quarter of the price at Halfords?

  30. Range Rover isn’t just about the full size SUVs that are bought by the very well off, the entry level Evoque has been a success as an affordable Range Rover and is just as capable off road as on. Widening the range to include smaller Range Rovers has definitely paid off and the Evoque is a familiar sight where I live, which isn’t exactly the richest town in England. ( Our High Street is full of boarded up shops and we have some housing estates with high levels of poverty).

  31. Interesting. No opinion on the Land Rover products, as I am never likely to want an SUV. Used to really want a Jag. XE and XF still attractive, but am suspicious of future product planning

  32. Hm. You don’t really welcome comments though, do you? If you did you wouldn’t have written such a miserable diatribe about your being upset by peoples’ comments…

  33. Some people like JLR products, others don’t, but it has to be said, the SUV side of the business is very successful and I see far more JLR SUVs than I do BMW X series. At least in one part of the motor industry, we seem to be very strong, and we can add the Nissan Qashqai into the British SUV/ crossover market, another car that seems to be selling very well.

  34. I wish they could succeed but the British market is too narrow and JLR is too small to survive, not being part of an over 4 million cars a year group, sadly. As a vintage-Jaguar lover and owner, I feel desperate;

    • Rubbish, too small to survive, there are brands out there that produce far less in numbers and survive, JLR sells more cars over seas then they do in the UK, and one they eventually get round to getting the reliability right, and pricing, which is pathetic, then maybe they may see numbers back at 800k a year.

  35. @ philippe, however, they do have the massive backing of TATA Steel and even if JLR aren’t the biggest of car manufacturers, their products have a big following around the world. You could say the same about Volvo, whose products I do admire, and which sell in decent numbers.

  36. Volvo is part of the Geely Group 2 million cars including Volvo, Proton, Lotus, Geely, Polestar, Lynk&Co, now SMART. Maybe JLR’s future resides in China ? The problem is less backing than sharing D&D expanses and components. The dead last XJ was apparently no good time to market. By enlarging their R&D division and sharing components maybe they might have made a winner.

    • @ Philippe, I can remember Proton and owned an MPi in the late nineties. Their Mitsubishi based cars, while never the most stylish or best to drive, were absolutely bombproof and very good value for money. Then they went on their own and created cars like the Gen 2 that were terrible to drive and badly made and their market share dried up. I would hope Geely would re establish Proton as a budget brand in the UK with cars that are low priced but acceptable to drive and well made like they were in the nineties.

  37. I hadn’t realised that the latest Prime Ministerial car is an armoured Range Rover L405. As a back seat passenger, more comfortable than the low lying (and out of production) XJ.

  38. As a current, well, no longer as it went a few weeks ago, I can not and will not be classed as a German fan, or whatever the comment in the report above classes those that deride JLR, I have owned a large number of JLR products from 2008 onwards, yet every single one has been an issue from start to finish.

    The reliability has been shocking, absolutely dreadful, the worst I have ever had an any car, or brand in all the years I have been driving, we have had Jags, Discoveries and rangies, all awful and we will NEVER buy another, why should we when we are spending £70k on a car for it to spend weeks and weeks and months in the dealership getting stupid things repaired, the final straw was the engine explosion on the Velar, no warning, no lights on the dash, nothing, it just destroyed itself, out of warranty, JLR picked up the entire cost, well, they would have been sued otherwise, as the Velar is awful, just visit the Facebook Velar page and there is post after post, after posts of complaints, and all from different people.

    The engines, are shockingly bad they have so many failures and issues it is becoming a joke in the trade, and the dealer that eventually sorted ours out stated quite clearly ” OH, ANOTHER ONE”, they even had a police Disco Sport in with the same issue after ours, so I am speaking from experience, experience of owning multiple vehicles from JLR, over the last 14 years, and they have all without exception been dogs.

    SO before I get flamed from those that think they are in the know, because great uncle Bulgaria from Wimbledon Common had an XJ7 in 1977, shouts me down, I am talking from experience, of owning brand new cars from them NOW, not 5 decades ago, the brand would not be lounging in the bottom few of every reliability chart if not, so, JLR need to get their finger out and get the cars produced better, with less things going wrong, and if they do not do it soon, then the death knell will be sounding, as people will only put up with it for so long, and ours was 14 years, 6 cars and nearly a year in the garage combined, three of them were back in the dealer within one hour of collection for issues, so it is not just the brand, it is the dealers also, which are even worse than the brands.

    ANd once the end of the year comes and our last JLR car departs I will be replacing it with an MG, either the new MG4 or new MG5, both of which will be head and shoulders better in reliability than anything from JLR

    • MG RULES : you mean, I think , that you hope ( I emphasise that word strongly ) that it will have better reliability . I am always sceptical about people who consistently have trouble with cars : it suggests to me that there might just be something in their method of usage which is, shall we say, unusual

  39. It’s very sad that, not only have Jaguar lost their sense of style, but it also seems their reliability is going too.

    While my long experience of Jaguar has been very positive, with many very reliable cars, my most recent Jaguar is my current XJ6, which is from 2004, so I don’t have personal experience of current models.

    However, your experience of the unreliability of current models is something that I have sadly heard from friends too, mostly the SUV range and the XE.

    Hence, far from “flaming” you, I can’t help but agree with you in large part, and I am not aware of a Great Uncle Bulgaria in my family.

    Jaguar’s downhill trajectory is such a shame, and I would imagine that William Lyons will be spinning in his grave.

  40. I drove past an I Pace today, and it’s a disgrace this bloated, ugly SUV should have a Jaguar badge. Like Marcus, I was a huge Jaguar fan from the days of the series 3 XJ to the last XJ. Now all I see are the so so XE and XF models that don’t really say Jaguar to me and these bruiser SUVs that would be more at home with a Mitsubishi badge.
    However, I quite like the Range Rover Evoque, a more tasteful take on an SUV that looks restrained and quite upmarket, in the same way the Nissan Qashqai is a more restrained and tasteful looking car in this sector( and it’s British).

    • I quite like the I-Pace. It’s different and original in its styling, and I certainly wouldn’t describe it as bloated; maybe slightly awkward proportions and a bit too left-field for many people. It’s certainly more interesting to look at than the incredibly bland, anonymous E-Pace and F-Pace which look like everything else on the road.

  41. @KC so do I !
    The I-Pace is not a SUV but more a cross-over.
    And it retains some of the Jaguar DNA we hardly find in an E or F-Pace.
    Those are “me-toos”as you underline.

    The XJ6 in its time was a futuristic car too !

  42. A friend of mine, who was at JLR at the time (engineer) admitted a few years ago that they’d never nailed the quality required in this market sector.
    Reason in his opinion = too many new bits being introduced at once. New Ingenium engines and factory, new facilities in Brazil and Slovakia, production being scaled up, engineering were stretched.

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